"60 or 30, coach?"
 

Here's the situation:

Great game between two quality teams that are well coached. Home coach is a great guy, always very complimentary of me. He pulled me aside after I had him last time and said my crew was lucky to have me, which is one of the very few times a coach has said something like that to me.

Home team ranked #10. They come out sluggish and visiting team goes up pretty big. Home coach wants a timeout and I hear a player request the TO. I grant the timeout to the player and ask coach whether he wants 60 or 30. He doesn't respond, he's focused on how terribly they're playing and coaching them. I move closer to him and say again, "full or 30, coach?" Nothing. Look at assistant. "60 or 30, coach?" Also focused on game plan and players, no response. Full it is.

I report to the opposing coaches and my partners that's a 60 second TO, report it to the table and start the timer. Heading to my timeout spot, he realizes I granted a full and starts going nuts saying he only wanted a 30. I say "sorry coach, I asked you 3 times and you didn't respond." He says he said 30 when he requested it, but I didn't hear him request it, I heard the player. I tried to explain that but he was pretty upset, and it wasn't a great way to start the game. Assistant says he said 30 too, but I'm 100% sure he didn't say anything. I was on the far block, so ended up as T on the throw in and he was in my ear about it. I apologized and told him again what happened. Here are a few questions, and if you have any further advice or how you would have handled it please chime in.

1. After he told me he wanted the 30, should I have just changed it? I think no, because the timer was started and this would probably miff the opposing coach. Also, I wouldn't have rule support for this.

2. When they don't tell you what they want, do you go full? I always have and have never really had a problem.

3. What should I learn from this? I feel like I probably could have done something differently, but I just can't really put my finger on what exactly that is.

Normally, I wouldn't really think too much about this but he is usually a really level headed guy and I like him. I feel like I've done a pretty good job of working on my goal this year-- coach communication. But I feel like there has to be something I can take away from this.

If I get no immediate response, I observe what the requesting team is doing as they gather. If the players stay standing up I go with a 30. If they head to the seats, I give them a full.

I'm rarely going to ask more than once.

I’m in same camp as Raymond.


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Bingo. Read the team if they don't tell you the first time.

That's why I keep coming back here. Thanks, guys.

I also agree with BNR, BDR, and RICH (that's his actual name, not a set of initials).

To add to that, if you get guys who sit, and you therefore grant the 60, and then the coach says, "but I wanted a 30?!", I don't have any sympathy for the coach because he should know better. Of course I explain it more professionally, i.e. "Ok, coach, but your guys can only sit during a 60, so that told me that you wanted a 60."

Another thing I've learned is that you typically default to a 60 if reasonable efforts to quickly discern the desired length are ignored. Your mileage may vary, but that seems to be the majority opinion around the country.

I would say that a coach getting this upset about the length of a timeout is pretty rare. Most of the time, a coach might get just a little annoyed, but in the grand scheme of things it's small potatoes and he/she moves on very quickly (after all, you get five TOs, and most games not all TOs are used anyway).

This is about the only thing in my pregame with coaches that I consider to be significant. I tell them "We're not going to chase you into the huddle begging for an answer. If you want a 30 make sure we see a signal, otherwise you WILL get a full."

It's never been a problem.

I tell the coaches (in the pregame meeting) that we will echo their request to make sure we have the same thing. If we've not done so, then we don't have it. It closes the communication loop. This prevents having to interrupt them after they've "started" their timeout and it doesn't require any guessing or inferring.

My pregame meeting with both coaches at the same time (required here) consists of “Players legally equipped?” and “Let us know if you have any questions.” My meetings are very brief, perhaps out of spite for some of the guys I work with who like to recite the entire book.

That being said, I have no issue with saying what you say in your pregame and might even incorporate it into mine. While I’m at it, I’m going to start asking for the speaking captain, remind everyone we’re playing the blue line all the way around, and tell everyone “white talk to white, blue talk to blue.”

Likewise

Don't forget to congratulate them on making varsity.

This was discussed at my association meeting last night--it seems around here the "When in Rome" thing to do is if they don't give you an answer, default to a full.

No clue if this is proper procedure elsewhere.

Why do we need to say something in the pregame that coaches already know? They know they are supposed to tell you what kind of timeout they want. If they do not know that, they will figure it out when we go with the timeout they did not tell us about. I never tell coaches anything in the pre-game about timeout communication. It is often a waste of time and they tell us anyway. At least that is the case with the varsity coaches.

Peace

50% of the time I can make eye contact with an AC and he will let me know.

But I guess since I don't run over to the HC and ask him an explicit question, I'm not communicating.

It is not uncommon that the AC is the one that clarifies their choice. By rule the HC is supposed to give the information, but if the AC is that disconnected then that is not my issue, that is the team's issue.

Peace

Thats the norm here and it drives me nuts. "Coaches, help us out on full or 30's" 9x out 10, I still find myself asking them what they want.

Also, I am not really a fan of telling kids "white talk to white, blue talk to blue" Its another do as they do in Rome thing, but where does it stop. Again 9x out of 10, the kid coming to the pre-game conference isn't the knot-head that is going to run his mouth.

I do tell them if they have questions come ask myself or my partners, I want them to know as a captain I may need them later in the game to go tell their teammate to knock it off.

My 2 cents...

"Be good sports. Have fun."

Is that too long?


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It's the norm here to ask for the speaking captain, to say "white talk to white, blue talk to blue," to ask coaches to "let us know 30 or 60," and some of the other hackneyed fluff. And I don't say any of it. Nowhere is it a requirement.

We have a combined meeting with coaches and captains here. When I'm the R, the elapsed time from when I start speaking until I end with "Have a good game" is roughly 20 seconds.

No

I am not frowning on anyone who wants to say any of the classic lines. In my experience, if a kid is a captain and has been for 2 - 3 years through the different levels, they've probably heard the same thing 60 plus times.

I'm more likely to say, "play hard and make momma proud" :)

I just think we have to realize that kids and coaches look at that meeting as a check mark. Anything we can do to not be robotic is probably worth it.

I called a full timeout a 60 tonight in honor of this thread.


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The only line I "frown upon" per se is the speaking captain nonsense. Because 95% of us forget who s/he is (along with all the other captains) five seconds after the meeting ends. And I only know of a couple officials whose personal philosophy is to only speak with the speaking captain (not surprisingly, those officials aren't very well-liked and coincidentally aren't very good).

I don't "frown upon" the other lines, but I think they're stupid.

I've actually been complimented before by coaches on how short and to-the-point my pregame is.

How do you notify the captains that the game's about to begin if you don't know who the captain is?

Funny that this is the one thing in that stupid meeting supported by the manual.


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But it is in the Manual, so it must be something they must do right? :D

Peace

Are You Starting ...
 

Speaking captain is not part of my pregame, but it's not a problem for me if others do it. A few partners will ask for the speaking captain's number, and some may ask if they're starting (I guess to deal with Rich's comment above).

In the Captains' meeting, I tell everyone there to show us their jersey number. I have no problem with the "white talk to white...." line. If my pre-game meeting takes 20 seconds, 15 of those seconds are dedicated to the "we aren't allowing any nonsense" theme.

Who do you know who to allow to ask for a defensive matchup when 3 or more players come in the game if you don't check their numbers in the captain's meeting?

HC or any player. If I hear the coach tell his team to matchup I'll hold up my partners from administrating throw-in/free throw.

OK cool. Actually have a team that runs the Grinnell system and some teams ask for matchup and the book says "a captain may request" and nothing about coach.

I always try to get a captain's number and name. Twice in the past week I've used the captain to help with a player.