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Valley Man Tue Dec 19, 2017 01:02pm

Ce
 
A1 is fouled attempting a 3 point shot. A1 is suppose to get 3 FT. U2 signals to table 3 shots then gets drawn into a conversation with coach. Administering officials give A1 2 shots. The 2nd shot is rebounded by Team A and they proceed to take 2 shots before Team A is whistled for a rebounding foul putting Team B in the bonus. Walking to the other end for 1 and 1 the officials are alerted that A1 was not awarded his 3rd shot.

A. Award A1 his merited FT (lane clear) and then return to other end for Team B 1 and 1

B. Disregard the foul (not intentional or flagrant) on Team A and put A1 on line for 3rd shot with lane occupied

bob jenkins Tue Dec 19, 2017 01:08pm

A

sdoebler Tue Dec 19, 2017 01:10pm

This is one of five correctable errors in NFHS.

JRutledge Tue Dec 19, 2017 01:11pm

You cannot disregard the foul because you have a correctable error.


So A is the only way to go.

Also, this is why when you have a foul that might be a 3 or a 2, not only the calling official has to be adamant about making sure you communicate that to the administering officials or crew what the foul situation is in the first place. Talking to the coach is very secondary.

Peace

Valley Man Tue Dec 19, 2017 01:23pm

OK .. so 2-10-6 is only applicable if there are no shots and the team maintains possession?

Nevadaref Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Man (Post 1013319)
OK .. so 2-10-6 is only applicable if there are no shots and the team maintains possession?

What do missed shots have to do with the rule?

bob jenkins Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Man (Post 1013319)
OK .. so 2-10-6 is only applicable if there are no shots and the team maintains possession?

Not correct. The real issue is when is there a "change of possession."

DrPete Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1013388)
Not correct. The real issue is when is there a "change of possession."

The time limit for correcting a correctable error is:
2-10 ART. 2
In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

After a made basket, the ball is dead until at the disposal for the next throw in. So after a made basket, the error must be discovered before the next throw in begins. There can be a change in possession, as long as there is no dead ball.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPete (Post 1013408)
The time limit for correcting a correctable error is:
2-10 ART. 2
In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

After a made basket, the ball is dead until at the disposal for the next throw in. So after a made basket, the error must be discovered before the next throw in begins. There can be a change in possession, as long as there is no dead ball.

Yes, I know that. But how you correct the error can depend on change of possession

SNIPERBBB Wed Dec 20, 2017 01:28pm

2-10-6 always applies to CE's. To break it down...

All CE's resume play at the POI when it was correctly recognized, except for when there is a change in possession and the CE requires free throws to be attempted.

With no change in possession, play resumes from the free throws.

With a change, shoot the free throws with no players along the lane, then you resume play at the POI, which in this case would be FT's by B.

Rufus Wed Dec 20, 2017 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1013315)
Also, this is why when you have a foul that might be a 3 or a 2, not only the calling official has to be adamant about making sure you communicate that to the administering officials or crew what the foul situation is in the first place. Talking to the coach is very secondary.

Peace

I take some pride in my now-defunct officiating career that this was a non-negotiable with me whether doing 2- or 3-man crews. While we always tried to be efficient/quick with FT administration we always pre-gamed that all of us would indicate the number of free throws to be attempted prior to placing the ball at the disposal of the shooter.

The quote went something like "4 out of the 5 CE have to do with FT. Let's not have to worry about those 4 tonight."

bob jenkins Wed Dec 20, 2017 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1013415)
2-10-6 always applies to CE's. To break it down...

All CE's resume play at the POI when it was correctly recognized, except for when there is a change in possession and the CE requires free throws to be attempted.

With no change in possession, play resumes from the free throws.

With a change, shoot the free throws with no players along the lane, then you resume play at the POI, which in this case would be FT's by B.

And, so the issue in the OP is "does the foul by A constitute a change in possession?" Since a held ball can constitute a change (see 2.10.1F (?), I would say that a foul does, too.

SNIPERBBB Wed Dec 20, 2017 02:27pm

I'd hate to imagine the cluster that would result if it would not be considered a change in possession.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 20, 2017 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1013421)
I'd hate to imagine the cluster that would result if it would not be considered a change in possession.

Many CEs result in a cluster, even when they are administered correctly (well, correctly after the initial screw up)

Nevadaref Wed Dec 20, 2017 08:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1013437)
Many CEs result in a cluster, even when they are administered correctly (well, correctly after the initial screw up)

Which results in some officials not adhering to the rules and instead doing what they believe is fair because they don't want the home team to get an unfair advantage. ;)

Scrapper1 Thu Dec 21, 2017 08:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1013415)
2-10-6 always applies to CE's. To break it down...

All CE's resume play at the POI when it was correctly recognized, except for when there is a change in possession and the CE requires free throws to be attempted.

Sorry if my brain is foggy this morning, but shouldn't the above say that all CE's resume play at the POI when it was correctly recognized, except for when there is NO change in possession and the CE requires FTs to be attempted?

SNIPERBBB Thu Dec 21, 2017 09:37am

Yes, there should of been a "no" there.

LRZ Thu Dec 21, 2017 09:52am

Change of Possession
 
What constitutes a change of possession is not always obvious. We discussed this casebook play last year or two years.

2.10.1 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled and entitled to two free throws under the double-bonus rule, however, the officials indicate a one-and-one bonus situation. The first attempt is unsuccessful; B4 rebounds the ball and passes it up to B2. The error is discovered with B2 in possession of the live ball near mid-court.
RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. Team B securing the rebound and passing to a teammate constitutes no change in team possession. Therefore, A1 will receive the merited free throw with players on the lane and play resumes from the free throw. (2-10-1a)


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