10-4-2
 

This rule says...

A player shall not purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Has anyone called this technical before? What happened?

Saw a couple plays (really the same thing a couple different times) and wondering if it would fall under this rule.

Yes. I had a player run all the way out of bounds after they made a throw-in. BTW, the player, in that case, was warned several times and did it anyway the way I recall it. The only time it needed to be called. Usually, I just tell the player, "Get on the court" and they do.

Peace

Like all the way down the sideline? End line?

This actually happened in my game last night. 6 ft out of bounds and was first to catch ball after returning. Violation. It was during a play not a delay following a throw in. 1st time ever calling it 10 yrs in.

First to catch the ball is not a factor.

Rules reference, if you please...
Sincerely hope you refrain from making that call the rest of your career.

BTW, welcome to the forum. You will benefit greatly from current threads and the more than 10 years of archives.

Y'all are correct on not having be the first to touch. However the player was clearly gaining an advantage by avoiding the defense. I was merely stating first to touch because had it been a few passes before he got the ball I would not have made the call (because at that point I don't feel as he would of gained an advantage and would have been a mere "play on". And yes I hope to never have to make that call ever again.

Almost Knocked Me Over ...
 

A few years ago (maybe it was a few decades ago) I had an offensive player run out of bounds around a screen, and he almost ran me over as the lead official. It surprised me, and I let it go, but vowed to call the violation the next time he did it. After a switch after a foul, my partner was now the lead on the same endline and made the call without me telling him anything about the situation.

That's the closest I've come to making this call. If I see it again, I will call it.

You'll learn to parse your words correctly with this crowd:)
Lots of sharp cookies here.

Agree, this sitch does require a solid understanding of advantage gained. That was a major point when this action changed from violation to a T several years back.

The end line.

Peace

Sure. The scenario actually happens all the time. The classic end-line throw-in where the thrower in waits out of bounds while a screen is being set for him, then pops inbounds out to the corner for an open 3.

You tell the player to "come inbounds, come inbounds, come inbounds," they usually do, and you have nothing.

If the player ignores that plea, delays returning and the play "works," you call the T. I've done it ... maybe twice in my career.

I've also called it just a violation, (which is not the rule, of course), maybe twice as well, and when the player or coach bitches, I explain, "It's actually a technical, so you're welcome."

Making the call is rare, but the scenario and play are not rare at all.

An Example
 

Purposeful Delay in Returning to the Court

Saw something more purposeful observing several middle school games a couple of years ago. A1 throw-in to A2. Coach A yells, "Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet." A1 stands OOB as directed. Finally, as all the defenders migrate toward the player with the ball now at the top of the key, he yells, "Now!" A1 steps inbounds, alone and unguarded, for an easy pass from A2 and an easy, unchallenged score.

Lack of knowledge of the rule led to no call being made each time I saw it. Maybe three times in three different games.

Violation ???
 

I was about to comment on this (above) but wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for the reminder. Anybody remember when this occurred?

I'm a little confused. Are you saying my situation should have been a technical? All rules references I find regarding my situation states a violation.

Fork In The Road ...
 

Somewhere along the line this thread split into two different situations: an inbounder staying out of bounds, and a player on the court intentionally moving out of bounds.

An inbounder (actually any player legally out of bounds) purposely staying out of bounds to deceive the opponent team is a technical foul.

A player shall not: Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

A player on the court gaining an advantage by moving out of bounds is a violation.

A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Yes. That is my fault. I split the thread and accept full responsibility. I'm a newb

Split Thread ...
 

Some of us do it all the time (I'm one of the biggest offenders). One situation brings to mind a similar situation and it goes on from there.

1) A player legally OOB and then returning deceitfully does require an understanding of advantage gained.

2) A player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason does not require an understanding of an advantage gained. Whether there is an advantage or not is irrelevant to leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. As soon as the player leaves the court, the violation is to be called (under NFHS rules), regardless of whether the player gains an advantage when returning to the court.

Advantage Disadvantage ...
 

A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

True regarding the specific wording of the rule in question. But one should be able to intelligently apply the rules in all situations.

The Intent And Purpose Of The Rules
… it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.

justacoach made a good point, maybe he oversold it, but it was still a good point.

I would like to hear more about the history of this change from a violation to a technical foul.

I don't think anything in my post implies otherwise. I was actually trying to help people intelligently apply the rule by pointing out when "advantage gained" is a consideration and when it's not.

As others have pointed out, the thread has evolved in such a way that we are now discussing two distinct rules: one a violation, and the other a technical foul. I was simply pointing out that "advantage gained" applies in the latter situation, but not in the former.

Rather right or wrong. I am going to apply advantage gained in both situations in regards to making either of these calls.

Advantage Gained ...
 

Please let's (plural) not turn this thread into a general discussion regarding whether, or not, advantage/disadvantage only applies to fouls and not to violations (three seconds, ten seconds on free throws).

An offensive player going around a screen and barely stepping on a boundary line (not due to momentum, but simply because he's not looking at the boundary line, he didn't intend to run out of bounds) is a little different than an offensive player going around a screen and going three feet out of bounds because he intended to run out of bounds, he thinks that that's the only way (speed, angle, etc., ) for him to get open. The former may probably not be a violation, the latter may probably be a violation. And in the latter case, I'm not an advocate of waiting to see if his illegal advantage was successful (getting open and successfully receiving a pass).

You have it backwards. It was changed from a T to a violation...unless you're going much farther back than I remember.

Confused In Connecticut ...
 

Are we talking about a player purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds; or a player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason?

Mea maxima culpa, confusion in the nether reaches of my addled mind.

Excedrin Headache Number Fifteen ...
 

Could somebody please straighten me out?

I would like to hear more about the history of this change from a violation to a technical foul, or from a technical foul to violation.

With regard to advantage gained, we still must see the bigger picture. A1 makes a throw-in waits a few counts then sprints down the end line around a double screen, catches a pass and hits a three. Clear advantage gained and an easy call. But, they run the same play, B1 recognizes it and switches to pick up A1. A2 make a backdoor cut, receives a pass and shoots a layup.

The offending player doesn't have to be directly involved in the play (touch the ball) to create an advantage