Could I have done anything?

[Scrapper1]

Here's my situation from last night's college game.

With about 6 minutes remaining in the 2nd half, Team A attempts a try, which is unsuccessful. Before either team gains control, A5 intentionally bats the ball into Team A's backcourt, where A1 is the first to touch the ball.

My partner at T (R on the game) blows the whistle for a backcourt violation.

As I start to walk to T to discuss it, my other partner (U1) gets there first and they discuss the play. Players are all still on the court, so I do not join the conversation. I am watching the players.

Whistle blows and U1 points toward Team A and moves back toward his position in the frontcourt. Ok, good.

R then says to me, "Team B ball!" and directs everyone to the other end of the court. U1 (never having gotten back to his original position) hustles to the other end and does not re-engage the R.

So what do I do here? We've already stopped the game once. We've had a long (too long) conversation. We've had confusion. And we've stayed with the original incorrect call.

Do I stop the game again? Do I take a crack at changing the R's mind? If I do this, don't I make the crew look worse? "Come on, make up your mind!"

What I actually did was nothing. In the confusion, I felt like I would just be extending the bad situation.

So at the next TO, I'm next to the U1 and ask what happened. He said the R was 100% that there was control. (In the locker room after the game, he said it was a controlled tap.) He wanted to stay with the call and he would take the responsibility for the call.

So here's my honest question. Should I have taken my turn at trying to change the R's mind?

The team that was called for the violation lost by 2.

[Matt S.]

First, let me say this is a tough play - and judgment rules the day with respect to 'controlled tap.'

In my pregames, we always talk about bringing information when you're on the floor, not back in the locker room. That said, if you were going to bring your information, it should've been during the crew conference, not a 2nd conference.

I think what you did was right - because your partners assumed (correctly) you didn't have an opinion on the play since you didn't join the conversation. If you had something, no harm in sending players to their benches while the three of you discuss.

[CJP]

Does a player have to "control" the ball to make it "intentionally" go somewhere?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CJP

Does a player have to "control" the ball to make it "intentionally" go somewhere?

No. (except where defined by rule, as in a tap for a basket)

[so cal lurker]

So is this a judgment call as to whether the tap was sufficiently controlled to warrant determining team control in the front court? What do you rely on for that judgment?

[CJP]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No. (except where defined by rule, as in a tap for a basket)

Could a pass or rebound be "tapped" by a player to teammate who scores and get credit for an assist?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by CJP

Could a pass or rebound be "tapped" by a player to teammate who scores and get credit for an assist?

Nobody in stripes could care less who gets credit for an assist. The real question on this type of play is "would you grant a TO to a player who is "tapping" the ball to a teammate?".

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

I think what you did was right - because your partners assumed (correctly) you didn't have an opinion on the play since you didn't join the conversation.

I absolutely did have an opinion. But it was so obviously an incorrect call that I (stupidly) assumed that my U1 was going to bring the information and the call would be corrected.

I should have sent the teams to the benches and been part of the original conversation, but I honestly didn't think my input would be necessary. Again, stupidly.

The question for me is what should/could I have done after the initial conference.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

First, let me say this is a tough play - and judgment rules the day with respect to 'controlled tap.'

In my pregames, we always talk about bringing information when you're on the floor, not back in the locker room. That said, if you were going to bring your information, it should've been during the crew conference, not a 2nd conference.

I think what you did was right - because your partners assumed (correctly) you didn't have an opinion on the play since you didn't join the conversation. If you had something, no harm in sending players to their benches while the three of you discuss.

Three officials should not be conferencing at the same time unless the teams are at their benches. So by the time he realized what was going on it is way too late to send the teams to their benches.

If this were the last two or three minutes of the game I would do so. But in this situation I'm going to let the crew chief live with his call.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Here's my situation from last night's college game.

With about 6 minutes remaining in the 2nd half, Team A attempts a try, which is unsuccessful. Before either team gains control, A5 intentionally bats the ball into Team A's backcourt, where A1 is the first to touch the ball.

My partner at T (R on the game) blows the whistle for a backcourt violation.

As I start to walk to T to discuss it, my other partner (U1) gets there first and they discuss the play. Players are all still on the court, so I do not join the conversation. I am watching the players.

Whistle blows and U1 points toward Team A and moves back toward his position in the frontcourt. Ok, good.

R then says to me, "Team B ball!" and directs everyone to the other end of the court. U1 (never having gotten back to his original position) hustles to the other end and does not re-engage the R.

So what do I do here? We've already stopped the game once. We've had a long (too long) conversation. We've had confusion. And we've stayed with the original incorrect call.

Do I stop the game again? Do I take a crack at changing the R's mind? If I do this, don't I make the crew look worse? "Come on, make up your mind!"

What I actually did was nothing. In the confusion, I felt like I would just be extending the bad situation.

So at the next TO, I'm next to the U1 and ask what happened. He said the R was 100% that there was control. (In the locker room after the game, he said it was a controlled tap.) He wanted to stay with the call and he would take the responsibility for the call.

So here's my honest question. Should I have taken my turn at trying to change the R's mind?

The team that was called for the violation lost by 2.

You were correct in your actions. The R took responsibility for the call after a debate. Not a big deal. You could have done something else but in the end, the R took the call. Any reports made will indicate that. If there are any ramifications they would be very minor and you can walk away with your integrity. Usually that is the most important thing unless of course you are trying to climb the collegiate officiating ladder.

[Rich]

Sometimes you can be right....and you can be wrong.

At the point where you needed to make a decision, you made the right one. You couldn't send the teams to the benches and then get the crew together and then (possibly) have an argument with the R over the call. Sounds like he would've stuck with it.

There's a pretty famous YouTube video where I was faced with an official making an obviously incorrect decision and an obviously incorrect call. In the end, I decided to do what I felt was best and that was to get the ball back into play.

And it's up to over 95K views now.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sometimes you can be right....and you can be wrong.

At the point where you needed to make a decision, you made the right one. You couldn't send the teams to the benches and then get the crew together and then (possibly) have an argument with the R over the call. Sounds like he would've stuck with it.

There's a pretty famous YouTube video where I was faced with an official making an obviously incorrect decision and an obviously incorrect call. In the end, I decided to do what I felt was best and that was to get the ball back into play.

And it's up to over 95K views now.

95,001 now...I just went and watched it again!

[Camron Rust]

There is no such thing as a "controlled tap". The player either tapped the ball or the or the player caught the ball and threw it. The fact that the player was able to direct the ball where he desired on the tap is not relevant. A tap, by definition, does not create player control or team control.

The R either made an incorrect call based on incorrect understanding of the rules defining player and team control or made a correct call by misstating what he judged to have occurred.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There is no such thing as a "controlled tap". The player either tapped the ball or the or the player caught the ball and threw it. The fact that the player was able to direct the ball where he desired on the tap is not relevant. A tap, by definition, does not create player control or team control.

The R either made an incorrect call based on incorrect understanding of the rules defining player and team control or made a correct call by misstating what he judged to have occurred.

The definition of a pass actually has the word "bats" in it.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by CJP

The definition of a pass actually has the word "bats" in it.

All that means is that you can move the ball from one player to another without establishing player control. Which is exactly what happened in my play.