0 vs. 00

[bucky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No. They can only have one anyway. I would not at all consider that anything but a bookkeeping mistake. They are not trying to deceive anyone IMO.

Peace

Agreed however do you feel/react the same way if it was 1 vs 11?

This is one of many reasons why I check the books before the 10 minute mark. Anything glaringly out of wack can be corrected. There have been times where I get a legitimate explanation/reason for a delayed book. That is good to know in advance instead of at/below 10 mins.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Agreed however do you feel/react the same way if it was 1 vs 11?

This is one of many reasons why I check the books before the 10 minute mark. Anything glaringly out of wack can be corrected. There have been times where I get a legitimate explanation/reason for a delayed book. That is good to know in advance instead of at/below 10 mins.

By rule 1 and 11 are two different numbers. The two numbers 0 and 00 are considered the same by rule basically. That is why they are not allowed to be used at the same time because computers cannot distinguish the both 0 and 00 as different numbers. But if we find out that the scorekeeper incorrectly copied

Peace

[bucky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

By rule 1 and 11 are two different numbers. The two numbers 0 and 00 are considered the same by rule basically. That is why they are not allowed to be used at the same time because computers cannot distinguish the both 0 and 00 as different numbers. But if we find out that the scorekeeper incorrectly copied

Peace

Yea, I understand.

Now I must throw in my 2 cents regarding technology or lack thereof. Based on what you said, if computer programs can distinguish between 1 and 11 as being different numbers, that must mean the computer program can recognize a null value in the tens place. Therefore, why couldn't the same program do the same for the number 0? I hate computers. All they do is reflect the imperfections of humans

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by bucky

Yea, I understand.

Now I must throw in my 2 cents regarding technology or lack thereof. Based on what you said, if computer programs can distinguish between 1 and 11 as being different numbers, that must mean the computer program can recognize a null value in the tens place. Therefore, why couldn't the same program do the same for the number 0? I hate computers. All they do is reflect the imperfections of humans

Depends on if you're storing the values as a String (characters) or as an Integer (number).

Computers store everything in binary, as a combination of 1s and 0s. Assuming we're using 8-bit notation (that is, 8 slots per number) if we're storing just Integers, there's no difference between 0 and 00, because they're both stored as 00000000. 1 is stored as 00000001, 2 is stored as 00000010, 3 is stored as 00000011, 4 is stored as 00000100, etc... 11 is stored as 00001011.

String values are handled differently... each "letter" has it's own 8-bit value. Assuming we're using ASCII notation, the 8-bit value for 0 is 00110000, which would be repeated twice for 00, so 0011000000110000. 11 would be 0011000100110001.

Of course, there are many different types of character encoding schemes (UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32, ISO8859, Windows 1252, and many many more, all of them work similarly to ASCII, but the actual binary value of a particular character may be different)



You may commence shouting "Shut Up, Nerd!" at me at your earliest convenience.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Depends on if you're storing the values as a String (characters) or as an Integer (number).

Computers store everything in binary, as a combination of 1s and 0s. Assuming we're using 8-bit notation (that is, 8 slots per number) if we're storing just Integers, there's no difference between 0 and 00, because they're both stored as 00000000. 1 is stored as 00000001, 2 is stored as 00000010, 3 is stored as 00000011, 4 is stored as 00000100, etc... 11 is stored as 00001011.

String values are handled differently... each "letter" has it's own 8-bit value. Assuming we're using ASCII notation, the 8-bit value for 0 is 00110000, which would be repeated twice for 00, so 0011000000110000. 11 would be 0011000100110001.

Of course, there are many different types of character encoding schemes (UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32, ISO8859, Windows 1252, and many many more, all of them work similarly to ASCII, but the actual binary value of a particular character may be different)



You may commence shouting "Shut Up, Nerd!" at me at your earliest convenience.

No, that was helpful. Very helpful!!!!

Peace

[TriggerMN]

FWIW, here's what our charter clinician said:

"As you know, according to rule 3-4-3d. A team shall not have both #'s of 0 and 00.

Simply a clerical thing here. The intent isn't to penalize a team in this situation."

[bucky]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Depends on if you're storing the values as a String (characters) or as an Integer (number).

Computers store everything in binary, as a combination of 1s and 0s. Assuming we're using 8-bit notation (that is, 8 slots per number) if we're storing just Integers, there's no difference between 0 and 00, because they're both stored as 00000000. 1 is stored as 00000001, 2 is stored as 00000010, 3 is stored as 00000011, 4 is stored as 00000100, etc... 11 is stored as 00001011.

String values are handled differently... each "letter" has it's own 8-bit value. Assuming we're using ASCII notation, the 8-bit value for 0 is 00110000, which would be repeated twice for 00, so 0011000000110000. 11 would be 0011000100110001.

Of course, there are many different types of character encoding schemes (UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32, ISO8859, Windows 1252, and many many more, all of them work similarly to ASCII, but the actual binary value of a particular character may be different)



You may commence shouting "Shut Up, Nerd!" at me at your earliest convenience.

Perfect, perfect, perfect! I almost spewed Mt. Dew on my 4 monitors. I was shouting "Go on, please continue!" although it was at a later convenience, not the earliest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_number_format

[teebob21]

I see I have found my people. Hello nerds!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I see I have found my people. Hello nerds!

Yes, welcome!. As you know, there 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

But, of course, hexidecimal is much easier to read.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Yea, I understand.

Now I must throw in my 2 cents regarding technology or lack thereof. Based on what you said, if computer programs can distinguish between 1 and 11 as being different numbers, that must mean the computer program can recognize a null value in the tens place. Therefore, why couldn't the same program do the same for the number 0? I hate computers. All they do is reflect the imperfections of humans

I am assuming because the value of 0 is the same value of 00 if stated. The only reason you would have 00 in the first place is for numbering purposes like our sport. Otherwise if you ad 0 or 00 to anything, it has the same value mathematically. And I am sure someone has made something that could distinguish the two numbers differences, but at the time this rule was put in place, I doubt that was universal and probably still not universal in all computer programs. The numbers 1 and 11 are two different numbers and have different values.

Peace

[bwburke94]

Originally Posted by bucky

Agreed however do you feel/react the same way if it was 1 vs 11?

Oh, not this argument again. It has nothing to do with the leading zero problem, except for the demonstration of a null value in the tens place.

Because 0 and 00 are different numbers in the rulebook but the same number mathematically, there's a bit of wiggle room as to how to handle the situation. (For the following notes, I will use an underscore to denote a null value in the tens place.)

• _1 and 01 are equivalent, and both correspond to the player wearing the actual number 1. If a player actually wears 01, that's a technical foul regardless of what they were listed as in the book.
  Neither _1 nor 01 is equivalent to 11. If a player is listed as _1 or 01, and actually wears 11, that's a technical foul.
  _0 and 00 are, by themselves, equivalent, and both correspond to the player wearing the actual number 0 or 00. However, if a team has both an _0 wearing 00 and an 01 wearing 1, or both an 00 wearing 0 and a _1 wearing 1, it's a bit trickier. If I see _0 and 01 (or 00 and _1) in the book, I would remind the coach that 0 and 00 are different numbers, but not consider it a technical foul.

As mentioned in my signature, I am not an official, but I've been on this forum long enough to know the relevant rules.