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JRutledge

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:05am

Big Ten - ACC Challenge (More videos)

#1:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3mpDFILs1GY" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

JRutledge

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:17am

#2:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lN8GyQ9ADJY" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

JRutledge

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:34am

#3

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CFBJEKRJbt0" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

AremRed

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:49am

Play 1: Very close but I prefer block on this play. CC

Play 2: Held ball is acceptable, CC

Play 3: Verticality, minimal (from this angle) A to B movement, CNC. Monitor review for the subsequent OOB play.

Camron Rust

Wed Nov 29, 2017 03:22am

1. Close, but I believe the defender was just a moment too late.

2. Held ball before the rollover.

3. The defender was jumping towards the shooter, albeit not very much. That would not be legal but the only contact was the shooters forearm into the defender's gut. Hard to call a block when that is the primary contact. Not enough for an offensive foul either. Good no call. Also, the lead was in absolutely the wrong place to see through that play. No way he could see either element from where he was. His spot wasn't normally a bad spot, but it didn't work for the way that play developed.

bob jenkins

Wed Nov 29, 2017 08:38am

Always listen to Camron

JRutledge

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:09pm

Added videos.

#4:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qu5KkTcUCyo" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#5:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cr1H9BK90Nc" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#6:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/q2rop2h4XBk" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

AremRed

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19pm

Play 4: Nothing on back down, CC on hit on arm

Play 5: Nothing

Play 6: No and no

BryanV21

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:29pm

On play #5 the defender was leaning into the offensive player with his upper body. I certainly wouldn't say he was vertical.

Raymond

Thu Nov 30, 2017 02:56pm

#5 could be a cylinder play since the defender ended straddling the offensive player's leg. I believe a foul is called on the shot so that they could match the call in play #4.

Camron Rust

Thu Nov 30, 2017 03:31pm

4. Yes. He was displaced. If a defender bumped the ball handler out of position like that, I don't think we'd even ask the question. No calls like that are why defenders think they need to flop.

5. Defender had good position

6. Yes. A1 picked up the dribble (in both hands even) with the left foot down, stepped to the right, then stepped again with the left. If not for the travel, the defender was FAR from vertical, and it was about to be a foul, but the shooter lost the ball when the ball hit the defenders gut. Any contact that followed was not relevant.

JRutledge

Thu Nov 30, 2017 04:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1012120)

#5 could be a cylinder play since the defender ended straddling the offensive player's leg. I believe a foul is called on the shot so that they could match the call in play #4.

That is a very good point. I was not thinking cylinder play, but you are probably right in this case.

Peace

so cal lurker

Thu Nov 30, 2017 04:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1012120)

#5 could be a cylinder play since the defender ended straddling the offensive player's leg. I believe a foul is called on the shot so that they could match the call in play #4.

But the defender is backing up and the attacker is moving into the defender--can the offensive player create a cylinder by moving into the defender?

JRutledge

Thu Nov 30, 2017 04:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 1012133)

But the defender is backing up and the attacker is moving into the defender--can the offensive player create a cylinder by moving into the defender?

If you are leaning on the opponent and not allowing a basketball move, then you are kind of responsible.

Peace

Camron Rust

Thu Nov 30, 2017 05:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 1012133)

But the defender is backing up and the attacker is moving into the defender--can the offensive player create a cylinder by moving into the defender?

No. the offensive player can't create a 'new" cylinder by moving into a defender. If that were the case, that would mean a defender would just simply have to keep getting out of the way indefinitely. The defensive player only has to give enough room initially. If the offensive player erases that by moving closer, that is the offensive player's choice. The defender doesn't have to give more room.

hamnegger

Thu Nov 30, 2017 07:17pm

I thought #5 was a PC. He basically bulled through the defender who did nothing wrong.

JRutledge

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:29pm

#7:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/t6l8LSrixUI" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#8:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UK388juRzro" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#9:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Swl3bT3rU9E" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#10:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M3YFR1uW82M" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#11:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jiAcNUQb8kU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

AremRed

Fri Dec 01, 2017 01:00am

Play 7: CC, Slot needs to report a chuck, not a hold.

Play 8: CC. So happy Lead had a whistle here /s

Play 9: IC

Play 10: CC block

Play 11: CC, Trail's play

Camron Rust

Fri Dec 01, 2017 03:48am

Play 7...good call.

Play 8...good call, defender was not vertical.

Play 9...great call. Screener didn't allow time/distance. The screen was blind and the opponent was moving. As for the coverage, that was the closest matchup to the L (no offensive players were even inside the 3-point arc). There was nothing else he could or should have been watching and he had the best view of that play. Both the C and the T were straightlined on that.

Play 10...good call. Even had 2-hands on the shooter briefly before the block.

Play 11. Contact, yes. But it was after the shot was away...the ball was about 2 feet out of the shooters hand at the time of the contact. That contact had no effect on the play and was incidental.

Smitty

Fri Dec 01, 2017 07:48am

On #8, why is lead putting a whistle on this from where he is?

Raymond

Fri Dec 01, 2017 08:46am

#7: One of those "fool the refs" play. A2 has his arm on top of B2's shoulder and then flings his arm back to make it appear he was bumped. Call doesn't hurt though as it lets the players know they are being watched off-ball.

#8: Lead has no reason for a double whistle, Center had the play all the way and had already put a whistle on it.

#9: Yes, the Lead should have this call. Trail has on-ball coverage and can't see the legality of screen. It is set by a player coming from outside his primary, so he needs help.

#10: Correct call. A1 did nothing wrong; B1 initiates the contact and then flops, causing A1 to be knocked off-balance.

#11: I would leave this to the Lead. Trail is behind the play, while the Lead has a perfect view between A1 and B1.

AremRed

Fri Dec 01, 2017 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 1012159)

On #8, why is lead putting a whistle on this from where he is?

Because Lead is n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶k̶e̶t̶b̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶e̶r̶e̶e̶ ball watching and not trusting his partner.

Smitty

Fri Dec 01, 2017 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012162)

Because Lead is not a very good basketball referee.

This is a D1 high profile game, so I have to think lead is a very good basketball referee. So I'm curious if this is something college officials would typically do or if this was just poor positioning and he was late moving over but intended to and was refereeing the play as if he had from where he was. I'm not a college official, so I am curious what others would say - Raymond's response clears it up for me.

Raymond

Fri Dec 01, 2017 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012162)

Because Lead is not a very good basketball referee.

There are high profile officials whom I am not particularly fond of, but I would never say they are not good officials (eye of the beholder), and would not bash them in a public forum, especially an officiating forum.

Rich	Fri Dec 01, 2017 09:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012162)

Because Lead is not a very good basketball referee.

Idiotic and horribly immature thing to say.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

AremRed

Fri Dec 01, 2017 09:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 1012163)

So I'm curious if this is something college officials would typically do or if this was just poor positioning and he was late moving over but intended to and was refereeing the play as if he had from where he was.

He was ball watching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1012164)

I didn’t say he was not a good official. I said he was not a very good official. Very big difference.

And let’s be honest — he ain’t there for his play calling ability. He’s there because, despite being a mediocre playcaller, he’s an excellent communicator and coaches love him.

AremRed

Fri Dec 01, 2017 09:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 1012163)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012166)

He was ball watching.

To expand further on this point: Lead needs to have better eye discipline and trust Slot to get an obvious foul in his area. Lead was mid-rotation and should have been refereeing his area (competitive matchup on low block) until he has completed the rotation and new Slot can take over that matchup. So the learning point here is to always watch your area until the rotation is completed and all three officials are in a new spot. Now perhaps if Lead has no competitive matchups in his area and Slot was overwhelmed and needs help then perhaps Lead can look across the lane mid-rotation — but that is not what happened here.

AremRed

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1012170)

Well, there is absolutely no one in his primary when he makes the call. The screener comes from the edge of his primary and there is nowhere else he would watch than off ball. He was not ball watching as he did not call a foul on the ball handler. I think it was close, but a great get from his position. And that is why you should not give "other" signals because the Trail clearly did not have the angle and he is telling everyone he has not foul with that "hand to the side" signal that I see too many officials use. Not even Bilas complained about the foul. :D

And being a very good official has nothing to do with the play. It is a play he can get and should get when seen. If there were people in his primary, then I might agree that this was a stretch, but that was not at all the case. I have also been a person that has been at a camp where he was a clinician and speaker. I have little issues with him overall. I have no idea why he is there and not someone else. That a is for others to decide. I just know that I have never seen much from him that I dispute. To each his own I guess.

Wrong play JRut.

Smitty

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:24am

JRut - you quoted an AremRed statement but used my name for the quote (in poet #28) - just wanted to make that clear that I did not make that statement in the response you were quoting.

JRutledge

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012171)

Wrong play JRut.

You are right, I looked one below.

I deleted the comments above as I clearly had the wrong play. I even went back and looked at the play again and was only thinking of that play. My mistake on that one and modified my statement.

Peace

AremRed

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1012173)

You are right, I looked one below. Sorry that is correct.

No worries man! We've all made that mistake.

JRutledge

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1012174)

No worries man! We've all made that mistake.

I see the play now and yes he was ball watching (Sorry sitting in a Starbucks waiting for an appointment for an hour and looked at the wrong number). That being said, I think this is also caused by this attitude about the Lead calling everything coming to the lane. He appeared to be in a slight rotation movement.

Also being an NFL official crew chief helps make you a great communicator. Coaches I am sure hardly ever question things he says to them in detail because he is on national television all the time. Just like the same thing happens to a John Higgins for the most part because he is always on TV working the biggest game in the country that night he is working.

Peace

bucky

Fri Dec 01, 2017 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aremred (Post 1012166)

he was ball watching.

I didn’t say he was not a good official. I said he was not a very good official. very big difference.

And let’s be honest — he ain’t there for his play calling ability. He’s there because, despite being a mediocre playcaller, he’s an excellent communicator and coaches love him.

+10

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