Player Control vs. Intentional Foul

[Glenn Lampman]

Asked our State clinician about this scenario.. He said that NF case book had this same play in the book 2-3-4 years ago and he remembered the ruling as 1. Count the basket 2. Administer the intentional Anyone out there keep rule and case books for that period???

[Mark Dexter]

The rules fundamentals from 97-98 state:
(3) A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through unless canceled by a throw-in violation or a player-control foul.

From the 1999-2000 rules:
4-19-6: A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he or she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter.

4-19-4: A common foul is a personal foul which is neither flagrant nor intentional . . .

If you have a flagrant/intentional foul (we can debate all day about what this foul should be), you cannot have a common foul. Without a common foul, you cannot have a PC foul. Without a PC foul, you have a goal.

Is this how things should be? No - a player making an intentional/flagrant foul should not earn points. However, the rules set it up this way.

[Glenn Lampman]

An airborne shooter is considered to be in the act of shooting until the player returns to the floor. If they foul while in the status of an airborne shooter that would cause the ball to become dead therefore no basket. it does not matter that the ball has left the hand or not or entered the basket or not. The type of foul would then dictate the administration??

[walter]

Where does it say that a foul by an airborne shooter causes the ball to become dead immediately? If the airborne shooter commits a PC foul then the ball becomes dead and the goal doesn't count. Any other type of foul and the ball remains alive if it left the shooter's hand prior to the foul. Rule 6 section 7 NFHS lays out when a ball becomes dead and what the exceptions are. No where in that section does it say that a foul by an airborne shooter causes that ball to become dead.

[mick]

Originally posted by walter
Where does it say that a foul by an airborne shooter causes the ball to become dead immediately? If the airborne shooter commits a PC foul then the ball becomes dead and the goal doesn't count. Any other type of foul and the ball remains alive if it left the shooter's hand prior to the foul. Rule 6 section 7 NFHS lays out when a ball becomes dead and what the exceptions are. No where in that section does it say that a foul by an airborne shooter causes that ball to become dead.

Walter,
Rule 6.7.4 The ball becomes dead, or remains dead when a player control foul occurs.
Rule 4.19.6 A player control foul is a common foul ... by an airborne shooter.
mick

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by mick

Walter,
Rule 6.7.4 The ball becomes dead, or remains dead when a player control foul occurs.
Rule 4.19.6 A player control foul is a common foul ... by an airborne shooter.
mick

Don't overlook "common foul" in that rule quote. An intentionan or flagrant foul would not be common. As such they are not player control fouls (by the same definition). Then it follows that 6.7.4 that is quoted doesn't apply.

[mick]

Camron,
That's a fact.
mick

[walter]

Oops!!! Is Right. I was thinking only in terms of the non-player control foul. As is the norm with this board, when you mis-write (if that's a word), you'll get called for it!!!

[mick]

Originally posted by walter
Oops!!! Is Right. I was thinking only in terms of the non-player control foul. As is the norm with this board, when you mis-write (if that's a word), you'll get called for it!!!

Walter,
Well, that's why we come here to play, ay?
mick