NCAA Men's National Championship Video Requests
 

It will be easier to follow if you keep all the NC game plays on this thread.

Do not just pick the obvious plays either. I am sure we all will be watching.

Peace

3:52 of the first half.
Foul called against Collins of Gonzaga by Verne Harris from the Lead position.

About 18:30 left in the first half.
UNC saves the ball twice on the defensive end line.

2:03 first half. UNC's Berry fouled attempting a 3.

Comment: there were four fouls against 3pt shooters in the first half.

That was cool. In slow mo I think the NC player on the first save may have had a foot touch OOB just before he flicked the ball, but I was ok with the no call in real time.

Heck of a patient whistle. I'm not sure I could have held off. That's why they're on the floor and I'm in my living room.


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17:58 remaining in the 2nd half.
Karnowski with the ball near the basket.
No whistle on the play until the ball went OOB. Seemed that it should have been either a defensive foul or a travel.

16:31, double whistle, lead calls the foul across the court.

If this is the foul on Berry of UNC, it was in transition. At the NCAAM level the Lead is extremely aggressive in such situations. Given that the C had a whistle, I would have let him take it, but perhaps the instruction is to force more switches.

As it was in transition, that was my question, but he seemed to go a long way to get that call.

10:13 left
Is Meeks correct that Tillie traveled after the defensive rebound?

Yes. But it took me ten replays to come to that conclusion. So I'm plenty ok with that no call.




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That is not a FF1, or even a foul on Berry

8:02, the first foul and then the FF1. 21 fouls called in the second half with 8:02 left on the clock.

8:02 left 2nd half
Call on the floor is a foul against Berry.
Video review is a FF1 on Karnowski.

802 in 2nd half...in a tussle for a deflected pass, Berry contacts arm of Karnov, foul whistled, then on follow thru motion Karnov contacts neck of Berry--vid review leads to F1----was it defensible to interpret it as 'dead ball' foul ?

623 2nd half...was it really necessary to have vid review on the last second shot clock made basket by carolina?

Yes.

NCAA Rule 11-2.1.b.4

"Determine if the ball was released on a try for goal before the
sounding of the shot clock horn when the try is successful. The
officials must recognize the potential mistake and signal to the
scorer that an instant replay review is required prior to the ball
next becoming live. When the try is unsuccessful, a review is not
permissible."

Once the ball becomes next becomes live (when Gonzaga has possession of ball OOB for throw-in) they can no longer review. If you are asking whether they should have reviewed it....well it was pretty close.

Both the Lead and Trail officials had a whistle for the foul on Berry....and in real time I had a foul as well.

FF1 is acceptable on video review, especially nowadays.

Called it as s DPF, got that. But Gonzaga had team control going in. So that tells me that in NCAAM, when one part is of greater severity, the offended team shoots last and gets the ball. Do I have that right?

In NFHS, as I was reminded a few weeks ago, there are no FTs and you resume with POI, regardless if one part of the DPF was more severe.


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About 50 seconds left.
Call on the floor was a held ball.
Was Meeks OOB?

The announcers needed to STFU about the officiating. Both teams were being very physical and never adjusted IMO. Raftery needs to retire the "nickel-dimer" phrase as well, doesn't help anything.

The floor on the Gonzaga end seemed to be consistently slippery, not sure what's up with that.

I saw that too. His right arm was out of bounds while he was in contact with the ball.

Can't fault Eades for that IMO, Meeks' arm was OOB for tenths of a second, while he was watching for a held ball between two and then three players.

except it wasn't a held ball when he was OOB

If I question the administration of a play will I be told I'm a high school official or that's why I'm not working a national final?

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So? He was still watching to see if it got held or not.

Do you think he faults himself for missing it?

8:02 of the 2nd half. I believe the double foul should have been a false double foul with the second foul being a dead ball contact technical foul.

I just listened to the audio of Verne Harris explaining the call to the television commentators. He said there was a foul on #2 White FOLLOWED by an F1 on Karnowski. He didn't say it was a double foul. He said there was one foul followed by another foul.

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I'm sure he does, but I don't and I doubt anyone should. Can't watch two things at once. Sometimes we miss things. And notice they never went to the review -- he probably didn't even know he missed it until he got in the locker room.

But I can ask him if I see him again this summer. I'll keep you posted.

That play is not eligible for monitor review.

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Correct. I still believe Eades didn't know he missed it until the game was over.

I found a picture of the moment Meeks touched OOB....I know I would be looking at that ball which is extremely close to being tied up.

https://i.imgur.com/XyVByyJ.jpg

Only if you're correct.

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Peace

I know we all look alike to many, but Verne Harris is the lighter skinned brotha. :D IJS

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Peace

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Peace

Officiating at this level has become so difficult. The HDTV cameras have all the angles and the slo-mo to catch everything which we humans miss in live action from our vantage point. I used to think that I wanted to work the ESPN games and the D1 tournament someday. Not anymore. I don't want that kind of scrutiny and the BS that Higgins had to deal with from the Kentucky fans. It just isn't worth it. Besides there's more money in coaching.

As for my above quoted post...yep, Meeks was out of bounds. Photos of it have now been published. Unfortunate, and not reviewable.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/of...064537595.html

So as officials, the key to all the video being shown with the scrutiny of how "bad" they called the game isn't always going to be judgement calls where, was it a foul or not a foul? Was he in or out? Yes, the video will show it and it will be "obvious" at that point. But in real time, we all know this is a difficult job to process all that is happening i.e. the hand touching the out-of-bounds on the tie up. Watch that play in real time and you'll see how quickly his hand hit and was pulled back.

The key with the video is the positioning and many great officials understand this. To get calls correct, you need to be in the proper positioning. Eades may not have seen the hand because he was too close to the play as it was right at his feet. Backing out with a wider angle may have allowed him to see the hand touch.

The first foul of the game from the Slot, did he even have an angle to see the play? Was he reaching out of his primary. What was the vantage point from T? Where was each official looking on that play at that time?

We know every call and non call will be looked at because of the tape these days, but it's how you use the tape to your advantage to get better and not worry about how it will be microscoped and used against you.

Conversations about positioning die on the vine pretty quickly....LOL

And he still missed it.

99% of the country didn't know he missed it until still photos were posted on social media. How many folks noticed it when the play happened?

If you read any reports of someone's head exploding in the Hampton Roads section of VA, it's because I just read another post on social media asking why the officials didn't go to the monitor when Meeks' hand touched OOB.

OKREF, apparently. :D

And 20 Gonzaga fans.

That's what I said. Berry didn't foul and then the contact by Karnowski was not flagrant.

No it wasn't. It was clearly out of his hand. Just another way the crew slowed down the game and broke any flow the game was getting.

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Peace

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Peace

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Peace

I noticed it immediately in real time. I would think a lot of us here did too. How could you not?

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Peace

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Peace

Flagrant Foul Review (Video coming)
 

I have the video in place, I am going to wait little before I post it. I think this play will be tagged by YouTube and want to see if I can do it later in the week.

Peace

The same way you didn't notice that Karnowski grabbed Berry's neck. ;)

I did. I was praying they wouldn't review it. Then I realized it wasn't reviewable.

I DID. I even pointed it out to my friend during the replay. I also mentioned it was not reviewable because it was not the original call.

I noticed it live, told my son that he was oob.

Well played sir!

I did not see the neck grab, but I did see Meeks OOB in real time.

Gotta admit, snorted my iced coffee, :D Thanks for the laugh.

So between the real job and ample amounts of reading, I'm still not seeing much as far as correct/incorrect ruling on the personal foul followed by the F1.

While I was watching the game, that ruling just didn't seem right. Can someone help me out?

We all know what they called and how it was administered.

My questions - After the personal foul, the ball becomes dead, at that moment, any contact that is illegal and excessive would have to become a dead ball contact technical foul. Is that correct or incorrect? If administered as a personal foul and then a dead ball contact, they would shoot the personal foul first (if in bonus), then the dead ball contact, with the ball being awarded at the division line for a throw in?

Sorry if it has already been discussed in this thread, I just haven't found it yet.

Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure this year!

From what I saw, it was ruled a double-foul that involved a F1 on Gonzaga #24 and common foul UNC #2. From there, the procedure is as follows:

The penalty for double fouls is no free throws and play
is resumed at the point of interruption unless one of the fouls is
a flagrant foul. Gonzaga #24 will shoot a one-and-one free throw with no
players in the marked lane spaces for the common foul charged to
UNC #2. Following these free throws, UNC #2 will shoot two free throws with
no players in the marked lane spaces for the flagrant 1 personal foul
charged to Gonzaga #24. Play is resumed with a throw-in to UNC at the point
of interruption, which is nearest to where the fouls occurred.

I'm the only person here who didn't get to see the game. Jeff can you post it all:eek: or tell me where I can watch it? Don't tell me who won...:eek:

Some a$$hole brought it up in this thread and on Facebook. He's probably just a HS referee.

NCAA Men's National Championship Video Requests
 

I think dahoopref has it right. That I'm aware, there is no "unless" clause in NFHS. It's important to point this out because most forum members are not collegiate officials, and what was administered on TV last night would not be the way to administer it in a high school game.

As to whether this could/should have been a false double foul……meh. I think this was so bang-bang that it qualifies as "two fouls committed by opponents against each other at approximately the same time" per the definition of a double foul. I was ok with the ruling (if not the use of the word "followed" in the explanation to the TV crew).






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One foul occurred while Karnowski had the ball, the other foul occurred while the ball was loose. Harris correctly described the play. The administration, well......

one clue for officials on this is if the shooter goes down in a direction not consistent with the direction that the contact came from, then consider the possibility it was a flop. good grief. there was another one from the left wing same half for UNC that was same situation, very minor contact that shouldn't have been called. I'm glad some NBA guys and media are calling out the tightness of the calls during this game. I think Collins from Gonzaga in particular got a raw deal. May help an adjustment to a little looser whistle to looking for advantage as more of a factor.

Agree. The shooter stuck his foot out to make contact. Reggie Miller would have been proud.

Any chance of getting this play posted still? Thanks if you can

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Peace

It appears they blocked it. Which I figured that was going to happen.

Peace

Just ugly basketball. Dribble down throw it up.brick....etc.

He got ball. Jumped off floor, then started dribble. Violation.

7-4-10 says when one of the doubles is flagrant the ball goes to offended team on either side of division line. I don't think NC fouled him but I understand the call. I saw this as false double. Personal and a dead ball contact T. The result should have been same. What they did but NC should have gotten ball at either side of division line.

I did not see first 3 minutes of first half. I didn't care for the foul calls on the two 3 pointers that went in. Gonzaga had one made on left wing. Didn't think it foul. Then later Berry made one. His follow through was over then contact.
I couldn't see the next one where Berry missed the 3 and a foul was called.

Thought second half they could have passed on some things but that can be said about many games. hard game to Ref. Ball didn't go in.

Per Art Hyland's RULES CLARIFICATIONS AND REWRITE- RULE 7-4.7 THROUGH .18 – November 15, 2016

The corrections and revisions of Rule 7 below (noted in red) should be implemented immediately. They should be viewed in connection with Rules 4-27, 8-3.4, 10-1 PENALTY f. and g. and 10-3.1 PENALTY and RESUMPTION OF PLAY.

Rule 7 Sec 4 Art. 10. After any double personal or technical fouls or any simultaneous personal or technical fouls when there is team control and only one of the fouls is a flagrant foul, the ball is awarded to the team offended by the flagrant foul for a throw-in at the point of interruption.

Thx for pointing out the change. Glad it didn't happen to me in a game...