Held Ball Signal
 

Something to talk about on Sunday while we wait for Monday (or watch the women's final which, I must say, I suddenly anticipate now that the UConn inertia has been broken...but I digress).

I've noticed while watching D1 men's officials this year, and in particular during the tournament, that many officials while signaling a held ball will use the stop clock signal first, then close down on the action, and after exhaling first, finally use the held ball signal.

I've always been taught that this is the one instance where you go straight to the signal without "stopping the clock" first. Was there a philosophy change on this in the last couple of years while I wasn't paying attention? If so, what's the rationale?

You'll notice younger NBA and D League officials doing the same thing

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cross, check the officials manual for NFHS...Somewhere in there it states to go straight up with the 2 thumbs for this call.

But I've noticed the same...And have been in discussions with RIs about it. Interesting for sure

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Two thumbs up
 

In high school the correct signal is to go up with the held ball signal immediately.
No need to stop the clock as the held ball signal is the stopped clock signal in this case.
Page 54 in Officials manual.

The signal is thumbs up immediately. But hesitating is used to be sure everybody is on same page.

That was kind of what I was thinking. But you have to admit, doing so defeats the "requirement" to signal immediately.

Anyone know if the CCA manuals directly address this?

FWIW, I actually kind of like the more methodical approach I'm seeing on TV. I've never quite understood what purpose it serves to go "two thumbs up immediately." In other words, how is a held ball call so different from other calls as to necessitate such immediacy?

We've either gone with am open hand or just a whistle with no signal for a few years now.

One official with a held ball and one with a foul -- we can avoid that by not hurrying with the thumbs.

The rule book shows the thumbs up as "stop clock for jump ball." It also shows the open hand as "stop clock" (not "... for violation").

NCAAW CCA says "Give the signal for a held ball immediately. There is no need to raise a hand for a stop-clock signal."

Held Ball ...
 

Same with IAABO high school mechanics.

Held Ball Signal
 

Most know what the book says. Personally I prefer the whistle and no signal till it's clear none of tne 3 are coming in with a foul or violation. A couple of tweets, we look, we signal a second or two later, and the official facing the arrow signals direction. After all, the whistle stops the clock....or should immediately.

The problem with using the "stop clock" signal instead of the "held ball" signal is it looks like you are calling something else and then go with the held ball. I do not like it. And if you have a dueling signal, then you go with what happened first. We make the simple things so complicated some times.

Peace

A bit off topic but...

I never really understood the stop clock signal (open hand in air). What is the purpose? And if the response if "to stop the clock" well then what is the purpose of the whistle? The whistle is enough.

Furthermore, what is purpose of fist in air for fouls? I think, yes extreme minority I know, that there is no need for any hand/arm in the air at all. Just whistle, followed by mechanic and any necessary verbal info.

Is that a super ridiculous idea?

The Chicken Or The Egg ???
 

Agree. At least once, or twice, each season I'm involved with different signals with one official showing the held ball signal. It's real easy to get together to discuss it. "I saw your held ball, but my foul came before the held ball". Or, "I saw your foul, but my held ball came before the foul".

For Your Eyes Only ...
 

Why give any signals at all? Sound the whistle and then hand the ball to an inbounder, or bounce it to a free throw shooter. Really? Who else needs to know other than the official? Keep 'em guessing.

Maverick: It's classified. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

And it's just as easy to do what's mentioned above and not have to have the conversation at all. Shrug.

Let's Have A Conversation ...
 

Eye contact (and body language) can go a long way, it's, literally, a part of every pregame (sometimes it's the only part) I've been involved with over the past thirty-six years, but sometimes you just have to converse.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.-...=0&w=326&h=145

I have seen officials do just what you said and it was clear by other body language they were thinking through what they were going to call. If you give one signal, there is no question why you are blowing the whistle. When you give two signals that are associated with two different possible calls, the people watching think you are unsure. Part of our job is to look like we know what we are doing. And not everyone can see or know what you were thinking. But they do see the signal you gave and if it is one signal, there is little doubt.

Peace

This makes it sound like the foul or violation would always take precedence. What if you have a held ball and it happened first?

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle, but I've seen his had up -- and that avoided a blarge.

Hold The Preliminary Signal ...
 

I hate it when that happens (usually in a raucous gymnasium). In any possible blocking foul / player control foul, situations, holding my preliminary signal has kept me out of a lot of blarge situations. Someday, and I know that it's eventually going to happen, in my haste, and my partner's haste, to sell our calls with strong preliminary signals, we will eventually have to deal with a double whistle blarge.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.C...=0&w=217&h=168

Why were you looking at him? Weren't you watching your area? If you had a whistle and did not hear his, what would make you stop providing a mechanic? (just kidding about the 2nd question)

Seriously, whistles/mechanics are about communication, nothing more. Whistles involve our sense of hearing while mechanics involve our sense of sight. What is purpose of doing both simultaneously? (blarges and other contradictory signals can't be avoided using either method)

Visual Learners And Auditory Learners ...
 

As a service to the hearing impaired and the visually impaired?

Today's quote worth requoting:

You don't have to be looking at something to see it.

The stop clock signal is specifically designed for, yes you guessed it, the clock operator. I have never seen a visually impaired clock operator. If one was hearing impaired, they would be watching the action until it stopped, at which point they would see the mechanic, if quick enough to pick up the ref, and understand what happened. Only players/sub need to hear whistles. It communicates to others of course but generally speaking the whistle simply means "look at me".

If someone was visually impaired, why would they be watching? And if they are watching, they are listening to the announcers to understand what happened.

People infrequently look at the actual hand (fist/open) in the air. Just stop and think what harm would occur if we did not put an arm in the air during a whistle. Maybe I am missing something glaringly obvious but I can't think of any and it would be one last thing we have to do while officiating. Happens all the time in the NBA and there does not seem to be any problem, especially with communication.

And the blarge double whistle was mentioned. Good point..kinda. During a blarge, aren't you looking to your partner anyway? Just like a blarge with arms in the air where you immediately communicate to one another who is taking the call, do the same. Only difference is you do not have your arms in the air. I can live with it, just don't think it is entirely necessary. That is a foul situation with fist in the air. Let's eliminate the hand in the air for everything else. It will help my distal clavicle osteolysis.

(by "impaired" I mean not having the sense)

Held Ball Signal
 

Without a hand/fist up there's no way I'd know I have a double whistle with a partner. The sound of my whistle overwhelms the sound of a partner's whistle.

I see officials work lower level games that blow their whistles then give some non-standard signal to describe what they're calling. Always seems to me they have no clue what's going on amd they're making something up.

Hmm, so every time you have a whistle(violation/foul), you technically might have a double whistle. That tells me that every time you have to look at your partner. So if he has something, you are talking anyway, the same if you both had an arm in the air. Nothing is different.

I know the idea won't happen, but to me it is simply unnecessary.

It's All About Me ...
 

... "I'm stopping the clock with a signal that will hint at what I'm about to call, and then I'll give a signal that will tell everybody exactly what happened".

We have a few college officials working high school games who simply point the direction without an open hand stop the clock signal on out of bounds violations. It's only a minor point, not really a big deal, but they are still encouraged to stop doing it, to set good examples for the younger up and coming officials who must eventually learn correct IAABO high school mechanics.

Note: The "hearing impaired and the visually impaired" post was supposed to be facetious.

It Also Depends On The Noise Level In The Gymnasium ...
 

Every time? No way. It depends on where in the primary coverage area the play occurs. Black and white? Probably no need to look. Gray area? It might be worth taking a peek.

I look at my partner to see if there's something else -- and it helps me slow down so I don't rush through the rest of the calling sequence.

(And, no I don't do it immediately if there's a chance for some extra-curricular activities between those players involved in the play.)

Yes, "stopping the clock" with either a fist or open palm is something JD is very anal about.

In the 2016-17 CCA manual JD mentions it specifically in the Q&A section near the front, and again on Page 77: "When an official calls a violation: Simultaneously give a sharp blast of the whistle, stop the clock using straight arm and open hand, then drop the whistle from the mouth."

Interestingly JD isn't a huge fan of two-handed reporting yet it became mandatory last year.

A held ball isn't a violation.

I think the NBA has it right. Fist for all fouls, simply whistle and point for OOB. The whistle is enough at the D1 and NBA level, but they use Precision Timing. I don't mind the "stop clock" signal being required at the HS and small college level just in case, but I too think it is superflous.

Get Ready 'Cause Here I Come (The Temptations, 1966) ......
 

If it was a single signal, I could agree with you, but it's three different signals, closed fist, open hand, or thumbs up. These three "stop clock" signals also tell everyone; partners, players, coaches, fans, table, police officer in the corner, ladies in the concession stand; what type of call is about to be made, a foul, a violation, or a held ball.

Coaches, and fans, need this extra split second to decide whether, or not, to get ready to lay into us for a missed call against them.

Lol, yea suppose so but the ensuing mechanic does all that and a whistle tells all of those same people that a call is about to be made. Not sure why telling them the type that is coming matters.

Ex. A1 travels = whistle, travel mechanic
Ex. B2 fouls = whistle, foul mechanic (hold, push, etc.) (I also believe that doing the foul mechanic at the table is redundant/unecessary. Do at either spot or table, not both.)

Ex3. A1/B2 have held ball = whistle, held ball mechanic

OK, I am done with this topic. I did not mean to derail the thread. Everyone makes good points. I will continue to shove an arm in the air.:)

I do not know about you, but there is this thing called peripheral vision that helps you see many things at once. It is the case you can watch something directly and see something else in another part of your vision. If you could not do this, you probably could not drive or look at a movie very well or officiate with much knowledge as well.

Peace

Tunnel Vision ...
 

As a newer official, all I have ever known is to signal to stop the clock with the open hand first then go to the thumbs. The first year I officiated, local association head officials made this a point of emphasis for everyone. I never read into it so I didn't know any better. This past year I moved and all of my partners went straight to the thumbs. Yes, there were double whistles, I don't recall a time where we had conflicting calls though but the potential is there. After discussing this with my new partners, a couple of them agreed that it made more sense to go with an open hand first. For me, it is a habit - either an open hand or fist on a whistle and I may never break that habit.

If I have a jump ball, I hit the whistle more than once. One of the few times that I'll tweet about 3 in a row while I close down. I don't show any signal until I've closed down sufficiently, and then give the thumbs up.

The reason I (and others that I frequently work with) have adopted this system, is that it stops play, and doesn't create a differing calls situation. Especially in a competitive boys game, I think the most important thing is to get them to stop before competition and testosterone gets the best of them, and we have an elbow or something fly. So by hitting the whistle quick and multiple times, this seems to decrease any extracurricular activity we might have. Closing down is self-explanatory, but the delayed signal then also allows a partner who may have had a foul or travel prior to the jump ball come in and make their call as the only signaling official.

It has worked very well for us over the past couple years, and other than the mechanic book saying to go straight to the thumbs, I can't really think of a negative to doing it this way.

That's what we do. Thanks for writing this more clearly than me.

Stop The Clock Every Time You Hear A Whistle ...
 

Granted, it does seem a little bit redundant. Back when I was coaching middle school basketball, we didn't have adults for timekeepers, and scorekeepers. We used students, and it was my job to teach them. The easiest thing to teach? "Stop the clock every time you hear a whistle". Nothing about open hand, closed fist, etc. just, "Stop the clock every time you hear a whistle". Of course, teaching when to start the clock was a little more complicated, but for stopping the clock, "Stop the clock every time you hear a whistle", worked well enough for middle school games.

Going back to the ancient days of NFHS (or whatever) mechanics, there must have been a pretty good reason for the three different stop the clock signals (fouls, violations, held (jump balls back then) balls). I wonder what that reason was? Maybe, the more information communicated to everybody the better? Or, maybe it was considered to be some type of preliminary signal, like we all do for fouls (of course for fouls it would be a preliminary signal to the second preliminary signal)?

Whistles occasionally failed to sound? (The motivation for the inventor of the Fox 40)

My guess is that the initial signal set didn't necessarily indicate the nature of the infraction with a 2nd signal but that the fist/open hand was the entire signal.

1. There are some games where a whistle can't be easily heard.
2. It also tells everyone which official made a call.
3. The hand/fist tells your partner(s) what your about to call. This comes in handy on a DW.

It really isn't more complicated than that, IMO.

Give That Man A Cigar ...
 

Bingo.

Now we can finally put this to bed for good. "Say goodnight, Gracie".

Sometimes The Pea Would Get Stuck ...
 

I not only owned that whistle once upon a time, but had the pea get stuck . . . beyond getting stuck, on some of those whistles it was sometimes possible to blow a deteriorated pea completely out of the hole . . .

They do it for at least two reasons: 1. to differentiate their mechanics from the NF, and 2. to show an effort to calm the players prior to demo of signal.