Controversial call at end of OHSAA State Final

[just another ref]

Sounds like the very definition of an intentional foul in NFHS rules.

[bucky]

Yes, sounds as if it was a very easy IF call to make. Ref had no choice really.

[ODog]

Misleading title to this thread ... what was the controversy?

[osf777]

I suppose the controversy was more with the coach and fans, but here's the coach talking about his understanding of the rules after the game. About :48 seconds into this video.

Moeller madness ends at The Schott

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by osf777

I suppose the controversy was more with the coach and fans, but here's the coach talking about his understanding of the rules after the game. About :48 seconds into this video.

Moeller madness ends at The Schott

Key phrase being, "our understanding of the rules."

[Nevadaref]

The NFHS had a POE on intentional fouls a couple of years ago. A foul away from the ball against a player not involved in the play was one criterion listed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS had a POE on intentional fouls a couple of years ago. A foul away from the ball against a player not involved in the play was one criterion listed.

2012-13 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

Intentional Fouls. The committee is concerned about the lack of enforcement for intentional fouls during any part of the game but especially at the end of a game. The intentional foul rule has devolved into misapplication and personal interpretations. An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that neutralizes an opponent’s obvious advantageous position. Contact away from the ball or when not making a legitimate attempt to play the ball, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting, shall be intentional. Intentional fouls may or may not be premeditated and are not based solely on the severity of the act. A foul also shall be ruled intentional if while playing the ball a player causes excessive contact with an opponent.

a. Anytime during the game. Acts that neutralize an opponent’s obvious advantageous position and must be deemed intentional include:
1. Excessive contact on any player attempting a try
2. Grabbing or shoving a player from behind when an easy basket may be scored
3. Grabbing and holding a player from behind or away from the ball
These are “non-basketball acts” and must be considered intentional fouls

b. Game awareness. The probability of fouling late in the game is an accepted coaching strategy and is utilized by many coaches in some form. Officials must have the courage to enforce the intentional foul rule properly.

2013-14 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

Intentional Foul - An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. It is contact that:
- Neutralizes an opponent’s obvious advantageous position.
- Contact on an opponent who is clearly not in the play.
- May be excessive contact.
- Contact that is not necessarily premeditated or based solely on the severity of the act.
This type of foul may be strategic to stop the clock or create a situation that may be tactically done for the team taking action. This foul may be innocent in severity, but without any playing of the ball, it becomes an intentional act such as a player wrapping their arms around an opponent. The act may be excessive in its intensity and force of the action. These actions are all intentional fouls and are to be called as such.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS had a POE on intentional fouls a couple of years ago. A foul away from the ball against a player not involved in the play was one criterion listed.

I'll issue a polite dissent here. Have none of us ever called a common foul away from the ball against a player not involved in a play? An offensive player might be standing in the post weakside, unengaged, without much going on....yet. But a defender, anticipating a need to improve his future rebounding position, might displace him to make space. Are we saying that's an intentional foul because it occurred away from the ball against a player not involved in the play? Of course we don't.

I understand the intent of the quoted POE, and from the description in the OP, it sounds like the intent of the player who got fouled was expressly to have nothing to do with any intent to play or score. And why not if you want all the attention on your team's best free throw shooter? So if that's the case, good IF call.

My point is that there are some (coaches and officials) who believe that in a late game situation such as in the OP, only the ball handler can be fouled commonly. False! So if a coach is strategizing to foul a weaker FT shooter, I'm going common foul if the fouled player has even so much as a sniff of engagement in the play.

What I remind myself during these situations is that A) some good coaches will try to foul before a throw-in ends in order to maximize saved time, and B) outside of throw-ins, to at least have an awareness of off-ball defenders in case they want to foul a weaker FT shooter.

[Old Man Ref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Sounds like the very definition of an intentional foul in NFHS rules.

I refereed a game once where the home team was trying to score 100 points against an out-manned team. Single A level ball. Home team is pressing up 60 points with under a minute to go and stuck on 98 pts. The home team coach yells "foul him, foul him." The home player fouled the dribbler and I called an intentional foul. Poor sportsmanship by the home coach but in hindsight, I should not have called the intentional foul.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Old Man Ref

I refereed a game once where the home team was trying to score 100 points against an out-manned team. Single A level ball. Home team is pressing up 60 points with under a minute to go and stuck on 98 pts. The home team coach yells "foul him, foul him." The home player fouled the dribbler and I called an intentional foul. Poor sportsmanship by the home coach but in hindsight, I should not have called the intentional foul.

Are you thinking you should have called a flagrant foul instead?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Old Man Ref

... coach yells "foul him, foul him."

Back in the ancient days, that was pretty much an automatic intentional foul. In my early days of coaching middle school basketball, back in the late 1970's, I was told by a fellow teacher who also officiated our home games to come up with a code word. From that point on, the code word was, "Steal the ball". I used it for over twenty-five years, even after the NFHS changed to rule to allow for strategic fouling at the end of the game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back in the ancient days, that was pretty much an automatic intentional foul. In my early days of coaching middle school basketball, back in the late 1970's, I was told by a fellow teacher who also officiated our home games to come up with a code word. From that point on, the code word was, "Steal the ball". I used it for over twenty-five years, even after the NFHS changed to rule to allow for strategic fouling at the end of the game.

I recall this was only a short-lived experiment (1 season, maybe) where it was official policy. Not saying it wasn't called that way in some areas, but I don't remember that it was ever the rule except for that single season.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I recall this was only a short-lived experiment (1 season, maybe) where it was official policy. Not saying it wasn't called that way in some areas, but I don't remember that it was ever the rule except for that single season.

It wasn't. It was one year and before that we had coaches and teams yelling "foul, foul, foul."

We would tell coaches to use some other word. Then that stupid policy went away and they went by what they did before. I never remember such a policy before that one year.

Peace

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back in the ancient days, that was pretty much an automatic intentional foul. In my early days of coaching middle school basketball, back in the late 1970's, I was told by a fellow teacher who also officiated our home games to come up with a code word. From that point on, the code word was, "Steal the ball". I used it for over twenty-five years, even after the NFHS changed to rule to allow for strategic fouling at the end of the game.

The trendy word lately (at least around here) is, "Fire, fire, fire!"

As if we don't know what's happening.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

As if we don't know what's happening.

2012-13 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
Intentional Foul: Game awareness. The probability of fouling late in the game is an accepted coaching strategy and is utilized by many coaches in some form. Officials must have the courage to enforce the intentional foul rule properly.

2013-14 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
Intentional Foul: This type of foul may be strategic to stop the clock or create a situation that may be tactically done for the team taking action.