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AremRed Tue Mar 14, 2017 01:51pm

NCAA Men's Tournament Officials (2017)
 
Previous Assignments:
NCAA Men’s Tournament Officials (2016)
NCAA Men’s Tournament Officials (2015)
NCAA Men’s Tournament Officials (2014)
NCAA Men’s Tournament Officials (2013)

FIRST FOUR -- DAYTON, OH

Tuesday, 3/14/2017
(16a) New Orleans vs. (16b) Mount Saint Mary's -- Brent Hampton, Jeb Hartness, Steve McJunkins
(11a) Wake Forest vs. (11b) Kansas State -- Jeffrey Anderson, Bill McCarthy, Nate Farrell

Wednesday, 3/15/2017
(16a) NC Central vs. (16b) UC Davis -- LaMar Simpson, Tony Chiazza, Todd Austin
(11a) Providence vs. (11b) USC -- Bo Boroski, Bill Covington Jr., Nate Harris

ROUND OF 64

Thursday, 3/16/2017
BUFFALO
(5) Notre Dame vs. (12) Princeton -- Paul Szelc, Anthony Jordan, Bill McCarthy
(4) West Virginia vs. (13) Bucknell -- Pat Driscoll, Bert Smith, Vladmir Voyard-Tadal
(1) Villanova vs. (11) Mount Saint Mary's -- Tony Padilla, Mike Scyphers, Dwayne Gladden
(8) Wisconsin vs. (9) Viginia Tech -- Jeffrey Anderson, Gregory Nixon, Gary Prager

ORLANDO
(5) Virginia vs. (12) UNC Wilmington -- Karl Hess, Pat Adams, Bill Ek
(4) Florida vs. (13) East Tennessee State -- Mike Eades, Larry Scirotto, Rod Dixon
(6) Maryland vs. (11) Xavier -- Doug Shows, Gerry Pollard, AJ Desai
(3) Florida State vs. (14) Florida Gulf Coast -- Terry Wymer, Tim Clougherty, Pat Evans

MILWAUKEE
(4) Butler vs. (13) Winthrop -- Ted Valentine, Deron White, Jerry Heater
(5) Minnesota vs. (12) Middle Tennessee State -- Tony Green, Kelly Self, James Breeding
(4) Purdue vs. (13) Vermont -- Ed Corbett, Earl Walton, Randy Heimerman
(5) Iowa State vs. (12) Nevada -- John Gaffney, Donnie Eppley, Michael Irving

SALT LAKE CITY
(1) Gonzaga vs. (16) South Dakota State -- Jeff Clark, Eric Curry, Larry Spaulding
(8) Northwestern vs. (9) Vanderbilt -- John Higgins, Kevin Brill, Tommy Nunez Jr.
(7) Saint Mary's [CA] vs. (10) VCU -- Chris Rastatter, Brent Hampton, Marques Pettigrew
(2) Arizona vs. (15) North Dakota -- Kelly Pfeifer, Ron Groover, Antinio Petty

Friday, 3/17/2017
INDIANAPOLIS
(7) Michigan vs. (10) Oklahoma State -- Roger Ayres, Byron Jarrett, Tony Chiazza
(2) Louisville vs. (15) Jacksonville State -- Mike Roberts, Tony Henderson, Rob Riley
(7) Dayton vs. (10) Wichita State -- Randy McCall, Jeb Hartness, Bret Smith
(2) Kentucky vs. (15) Northern Kentucky -- Brian O'Connell, Lamar Simpson, Raymond Styons

TULSA
(3) Baylor vs. (14) New Mexico State -- Gene Steratore, Jamie Luckie, Evan Burroughs
(6) SMU vs. (11) USC -- Joe Lindsay, Matt Potter, Ray Natali
(1) Kansas vs. (16) UC Davis -- DJ Carstensen, Deldre Carr, Ray Acosta
(6) Miami [FL] vs. (9) Michigan State -- Rick Crawford, Don Daily, Michael Stephens

GREENVILLE
(8) Arkansas vs. (9) Seton Hall -- Doug Sirmons, David Hall, Mike Nance
(1) North Carolina vs. (16) Texas Southern -- Paul Faia, Mike Reed, Les Jones
(2) Duke vs. (15) Troy -- Tim Nestor, Darron George, Lamont Simpson
(7) South Carolina vs. (10) Marquette -- Michael Greenstein, Bo Boroski, Olandis Poole

SACRAMENTO
(3) Oregon vs. (14) Iona -- Sean Casey, Terry Oglesby, Bill Covington
(6) Creighton vs. (11) Rhode Island -- Bob Staffen, Mark Schur, Keith Kimble
(6) Cincinnati vs. (11) Kansas State -- Verne Harris, Lee Cassell, Clarence Armstrong
(3) UCLA vs. (14) Kent State -- Chris Beaver, Kipp Kissinger, Brandon Cruz

ROUND OF 32

Saturday, 3/18/2017
BUFFALO
(5) Notre Dame vs. (4) West Virginia -- Paul Szelc, Tony Padilla, Jeffrey Anderson
(8) Wisconsin vs. (1) Villanova -- Anthony Jordan, Pat Driscoll, Gregory Nixon

ORLANDO
(11) Xavier vs. (3) Florida State -- Tim Clougherty, Pat Adams, Mike Eades
(5) Virginia vs. (5) Florida -- Terry Wymer, Doug Shows, Larry Scirotto

MILWAUKEE
(12) Middle Tennessee State vs. (4) Butler -- John Gaffney, Ed Corbett, Michael Irving
(5) Iowa State vs. (5) Purdue -- Earl Walton, James Breeding, Ted Valentine

SALT LAKE CITY
(8) Northwestern vs. (1) Gonzaga -- Chris Rastatter, Jeff Clark, Brent Hampton
(7) St. Mary's [CA] vs. (2) Arizona -- John Higgins, Eric Curry, Ron Groover

Sunday, 3/19/2017
INDIANAPOLIS
(7) Michigan vs. (2) Louisville -- Randy McCall, Lamar Simpson, Jeb Hartness
(10) Wichita State vs. (2) Kentucky -- Mike Roberts, Brian O'Connell, Roger Ayers

TULSA
(9) Michigan State vs. (1) Kansas -- Jamie Luckie, Gene Steratore, Ray Natili
(11) USC vs. (3) Baylor -- Don Daily, Michael Stephens, Joe Lindsay

GREENVILLE
(8) Arkansas vs. (1) North Carolina -- Bo Boroski, Darron George, Lamont Simpson
(7) South Carolina vs. (2) Duke -- David Hall, Doug Sirmons, Mike Reed

SACRAMENTO
(11) Rhode Island vs. (3) Oregon -- Kipp Kissinger, Terry Oglesby, Bill Covington Jr.
(6) Cincinnati vs. (3) UCLA -- Keith Kimble, Verne Harris, Lee Cassell

SWEET SIXTEEN

Thursday, 3/23/2017
KANSAS CITY
(7) Michigan vs. (3) Oregon -- Roger Ayres, Earl Walton, Brian O'Connell
(4) Purdue vs. (1) Kansas -- Doug Sirmons, Lee Cassell, Bill Covington

SAN JOSE
(4) West Virginia vs. (1) Gonzaga -- Eric Curry, Jamie Luckie, Lamont Simpson
(11) Xavier vs. (2) Arizona -- Terry Wymer, Pat Adams, DJ Carstensen

Friday, 3/24/2017
MEMPHIS
(4) Butler vs. (1) North Carolina -- Doug Shows, LaMar Simpson, Joe Lindsay
(3) UCLA vs. (2) Kentucky -- Bo Boroski, Tony Padilla, Don Daily

NEW YORK
(7) South Carolina vs. (3) Baylor -- Mike Roberts, John Gaffney, Gene Steratore
(8) Wisconsin vs. (4) Florida -- Verne Harris, Tim Clougherty, Jeb Hartness

ELITE EIGHT

Saturday, 3/25/2017
KANSAS CITY
(1) Kansas vs. (3) Oregon -- Randy McCall, Ted Valentine, Terry Oglesby

SAN JOSE
(1) Gonzaga vs. (11) Xavier -- Kipp Kissinger, Michael Stephens, James Breeding

Sunday, 3/26/2017
MEMPHIS
(1) North Carolina vs. (2) Kentucky -- John Higgins, Keith Kimble, Mike Reed

NEW YORK
(4) Florida vs. (7) South Carolina -- Mike Eades, Jeff Anderson, Ron Groover

FINAL FOUR -- PHOENIX, AZ

Saturday, 4/1/2017
(1) Gonzaga vs. (7) South Carolina -- John Higgins, Jeffrey Anderson, Doug Sirmons, alternate: Terry Oglesby
(1) North Carolina vs. (3) Oregon -- Ron Groover, Ted Valentine, Tony Padilla, alternate: Terry Oglesby

Monday, 4/3/2017
(1) Gonzaga vs. (1) North Carolina -- Mike Eades, Verne Harris, Michael Stephens, alternate: Terry Oglesby

Raymond Tue Mar 14, 2017 03:16pm

I tried to log in to "2017 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball First and Second Rounds Assignment Information" on the Central Hub, but for some reason I'm locked out. :( :confused:

:D

BillyMac Tue Mar 14, 2017 03:39pm

On Again ???
 
What about our Forum online ESPN bracket pool?

Baby needs a new pair of shoes.

Camron Rust Tue Mar 14, 2017 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 1002410)
I tried to log in to "2017 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball First and Second Rounds Assignment Information" on the Central Hub, but for some reason I'm locked out. :( :confused:

:D

I was looking for you name above but couldn't find it. There must be some mistake.

dahoopref Wed Mar 15, 2017 09:44pm

My predictions (for now) ;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1002399)
-

ROUND OF 64

Thursday, 3/16/2017
BUFFALO
Mike Scyphers, Tony Padilla

SALT LAKE CITY
John Higgins, Eric Curry, Chris Rastatter

Friday, 3/17/2017

GREENVILLE
Bo Boroski, Mike Reed, David Hall

SACRAMENTO
Verne Harris


Raymond Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:58pm

That's Covington Jr. Sr. is still a D1 official

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

AremRed Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:39am

Notable names who have not yet worked: Mike Stuart, Mike Roberts, Verne Harris, Kipp Kissinger, Don Daily (personal favorite), Brian O'Connell, Tom Eades, Gene Steretore, Joe DeRosa, Doug Sirmons, David Hall, Ray Natili, Roger Ayers, Terry Oglesby, Jamie Luckie, Brian Dorsey, DJ Carstensen, Lamont Simpson, Chris Beaver, Gary Prager, Michael Stephens, and Darron George.

Obviously that's probably a list of who will work tomorrow. :D

I noticed a LOT of Lead officials helping mark 3 point attempts on the wing today, wonder if that was something JD emphasized.

Tony Greene gets First Tech of Tournament™ award! Could have tossed Richard Pitino but decided not to.

SC Official Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:31am

Oklahoma State-Michigan

Roger Ayers, Tony Chiazza, Byron Jarrett

AremRed Fri Mar 17, 2017 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1002720)
Oklahoma State-Michigan

Roger Ayers, Tony Chiazza, Byron Jarrett

I'm at one of the sessions today, please send me a PM if needed.

SC Official Sat Mar 18, 2017 07:44am

No DeRosa or Tom Eades?

mattmets Sat Mar 18, 2017 08:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1002762)
No DeRosa or Tom Eades?

Tom Eades has been hurt for the last month or so. DeRosa, Dorsey, and Stuart are the biggest no-shows through the first round.

bradriney Sat Mar 18, 2017 04:40pm

UK vs NKU
 
Brian O'Connell, Lamar Simpson, Raymond Styons

big jake Sat Mar 18, 2017 07:39pm

Where is Derosa?

AremRed Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1002802)
Where is Derosa?

JD must have sent DeRosa upstate to live on a farm.

big jake Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:38pm

S4veral must have not got the proper paperwork in to be eligible

AremRed Sun Mar 19, 2017 08:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1002857)
S4veral must have not got the proper paperwork in to be eligible

You think a big time D1 official who has worked the tournament multiple times makes the mistake of not getting his paperwork in order?

Raymond Sun Mar 19, 2017 09:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1002902)
You think a big time D1 official who has worked the tournament multiple times makes the mistake of not getting his paperwork in order?

Yes, Jim Burr had it happen one season.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Texref Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:09pm

Thought they couldn't work both NIT and NCAA. Kimble worked the Houston NIT game and had both first and second round games. Good for him! Good people and good referee!

Raymond Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texref (Post 1002913)
Thought they couldn't work both NIT and NCAA. Kimble worked the Houston NIT game and had both first and second round games. Good for him! Good people and good referee!

They have to have so many hours (48?) of idle time between NIT and NCAA game.

Raymond Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:43pm

My favorite NCAA official again this season is Kipp Kippinger.

AremRed Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 1002910)
Yes, Jim Burr had it happen one season.

Yeah, but Stuart, DeRosa, AND Dorsey?? Dorsey was the alternate for the Final Four last year.

My guess for Stuart and DeRosa is that they didn't like their assignments last year (both only worked regional semifinal), knew JD was not going to advance them furthur, and took an early vacation.

Shame cuz those two guys are still among the best. It's not like DeRosa dropped off the cliff like Burr did a couple years ago.

tmagan Mon Mar 20, 2017 02:44am

If Ted Valentine makes another Final Four, he will break the record for most years between first final four and last final four currently held at twenty-one years by Jody Sylvester and Jim Burr.

RefCT Mon Mar 20, 2017 06:34am

Separate topic - anyone else notice there seems to be more "tweety bird" whistle blowing in the tournament this year? What I mean by this is multiple blasts of the whistle to make the call.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

SC Official Mon Mar 20, 2017 07:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefCT (Post 1002946)
Separate topic - anyone else notice there seems to be more "tweety bird" whistle blowing in the tournament this year? What I mean by this is multiple blasts of the whistle to make the call.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No more this year than other years.

And I have no problem with it.

CecilOne Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:00am

Best I have SEEN this year are Corbett, Driscoll, Ayers, Steratore.
Mostly watch Big East (Villanova grad & devoted fan), plus some other high ranks or rivalries.

big jake Mon Mar 20, 2017 06:10pm

JD is the best in the game right now. Their loss that he is not calling. Stuart still calls a good game as does Dorcy.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Mar 20, 2017 08:34pm

Joe DeRosa.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1002691)
Notable names who have not yet worked: Mike Stuart, Mike Roberts, Verne Harris, Kipp Kissinger, Don Daily (personal favorite), Brian O'Connell, Tom Eades, Gene Steretore, Joe DeRosa, Doug Sirmons, David Hall, Ray Natili, Roger Ayers, Terry Oglesby, Jamie Luckie, Brian Dorsey, DJ Carstensen, Lamont Simpson, Chris Beaver, Gary Prager, Michael Stephens, and Darron George.

Obviously that's probably a list of who will work tomorrow. :D

I noticed a LOT of Lead officials helping mark 3 point attempts on the wing today, wonder if that was something JD emphasized.

Tony Greene gets First Tech of Tournament™ award! Could have tossed Richard Pitino but decided not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1002762)
No DeRosa or Tom Eades?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets (Post 1002763)
Tom Eades has been hurt for the last month or so. DeRosa, Dorsey, and Stuart are the biggest no-shows through the first round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1002802)
Where is Derosa?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1002825)
JD must have sent DeRosa upstate to live on a farm.


I have it from an unimpeachable source that Joe did not officiate the first weekend for personal reasons.

MTD, Sr.

bucky Mon Mar 20, 2017 09:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1003030)
I have it from in unimpeachable source that Joe did not officiate the first weekend for personal reasons.

MTD, Sr.

And the reason for missing other games?

Nevadaref Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1003034)
And the reason for missing other games?

Um, we've only conducted the first weekend of games. There haven't been any other games.

The NCAA Championship manual outlines the process through which officials will be selected for the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. They come from the 96 which worked the previous two rounds of the tournament. Hence, it seems clear that someone can't jump in at the 3rd round.

bucky Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1003040)
Um, we've only conducted the first weekend of games. There haven't been any other games.

The NCAA Championship manual outlines the process through which officials will be selected for the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. They come from the 96 which worked the previous two rounds of the tournament. Hence, it seems clear that someone can't jump in at the 3rd round.

Sure, makes perfect sense, my mistake.

I do not recall seeing him in any conference tournament games(he probably worked though) or the First Four played on 3/14. I also was not considering 3/16 (Thurs) a weekend game.

leiserom Tue Mar 21, 2017 03:46pm

CBI Tourney
 
Rodrick Dixon who was in the ETSU/Florida NCAA game was at Tudor Fieldhouse in Houston as one of the officials for the Rice/UVU game yesterday evening. If I remember when he did HS ball I did one game with him.

big jake Tue Mar 21, 2017 06:51pm

Any word on Stuart and Dorsey on why they did not work

big jake Tue Mar 21, 2017 06:54pm

Joe worked the finals of the Big 12 conference

Raymond Wed Mar 22, 2017 08:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1003097)
Any word on Stuart and Dorsey on why they did not work

I sent them text messages but they haven't responded yet.

big jake Fri Mar 24, 2017 09:54am

let us know when you hear something.

Badgerfan2 Fri Mar 24, 2017 08:20pm

Officials for #Badgers-Florida: Verne Harris,Tim Clougherty and Jeb Hartness. Harris from Pac-12, Clougherty from ACC, Hartness from Big 12.

big jake Sat Mar 25, 2017 05:22pm

Kip, Breeding and Stephens on the First game today

Raymond Sat Mar 25, 2017 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1003448)
Kip, Breeding and Stephens on the First game today

On the alley oop foul that was changed to a two-shot foul. The call was right, but I don't like how Stephens came in and took over and signalled 2 shots instead of letting Kippinger signal the two shots since he's the one who called The foul.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

dahoopref Sat Mar 25, 2017 06:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 1003449)
On the alley oop foul that was changed to a two-shot foul. The call was right, but I don't like how Stephens came in and took over and signalled 2 shots instead of letting Kippinger signal the two shots since he's the one who called The foul.

Agree with this 100%. Bring information to the calling official and then let him decide the adjudication.

parker27 Sat Mar 25, 2017 08:07pm

Stephens likes to be noticed, probably played a part in it. Very dramatic on calls when he doesn't have to be.

big jake Sat Mar 25, 2017 09:02pm

Ky vs UNC

Higgins, Keith Kimble, Mike Reed

SAJ Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 1003449)
On the alley oop foul that was changed to a two-shot foul. The call was right, but I don't like how Stephens came in and took over and signalled 2 shots instead of letting Kippinger signal the two shots since he's the one who called The foul.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Kippinger. Has a nice ring to it.

Anyways, with him and Higgins in the Elite 8 that makes two from the Husker state. Good work guys.

big jake Sun Mar 26, 2017 02:20pm

Mike Eades, Jeff Anderson and Ron Groover on the SC Florida game

big jake Sun Mar 26, 2017 02:44pm

That Jeff Anderson sure has a funny way of running

bucky Sun Mar 26, 2017 03:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1003489)
That Jeff Anderson sure has a funny way of running

And his FT 10 second count mechanic isn't exactly a wrist flick either.

Camron Rust Sun Mar 26, 2017 06:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by big jake (Post 1003489)
That Jeff Anderson sure has a funny way of running

It is as if he is trying to make it look like he is hustling. However, anytime there was a transition, he was the slowest one down the court despite being the one with the most motion. Running like that will not get you down the court faster.

refinks Sun Mar 26, 2017 07:02pm

When do the 10 officials for Final Four weekend get announced? Anybody wanna make predictions? I'm partial to Higgins and Kimble myself. Also wouldn't mind seeing Ted Valentine.

frezer11 Sun Mar 26, 2017 07:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1003534)
It is as if he is trying to make it look like he is hustling. However, anytime there was a transition, he was the slowest one down the court despite being the one with the most motion. Running like that will not get you down the court faster.

I guess he's staying pretty loose doing High-knees all the time. Pretty confident if I had to bet on one official who isn't going to pull a hammy during the game that I'm going with him...

AremRed Sun Mar 26, 2017 07:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refinks (Post 1003535)
When do the 10 officials for Final Four weekend get announced? Anybody wanna make predictions? I'm partial to Higgins and Kimble myself. Also wouldn't mind seeing Ted Valentine.

I believe they will be announced as soon as tomorrow.

The ten officials who worked last year were: Mark Whitehead (retired), Tom Eades (injured?), Tony Padilla, Jeff Clark (was on controversial game), Roger Ayers, Mike Eades, Michael Stephens, Terry Wymer, John Higgins, Brian Dorsey (alternate/not working this year).

I would expect Roger Ayers, Mike Eades, Terry Wymer, Michael Stephens, and John Higgins as locks.

big jake Sun Mar 26, 2017 09:43pm

With the game Higgins had this weekend I say he may be out

slick rick Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:03am

What ever happened to Bolger?:eek:

Raymond Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick rick (Post 1003785)
What ever happened to Bolger?:eek:

Final Four is outside of his work release dates.

SD Referee Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by parker27 (Post 1003459)
Stephens likes to be noticed, probably played a part in it. Very dramatic on calls when he doesn't have to be.

I think if you take notice, you will see that a LOT of the guys doing the big games like to be noticed. Very dramatic signals, double & triple tweets of the whistle, calling a charge from the lead like you just got shot.

Those guys LOVE to be noticed. It's funny because the game isn't about them, but they think it is. When you start out officiating, you are told that if you aren't noticed it was a good game. Apparently as you rise up the ranks you try to be noticed as much as possible.

bucky Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003794)
I think if you take notice, you will see that a LOT of the guys doing the big games like to be noticed. Very dramatic signals, double & triple tweets of the whistle, calling a charge from the lead like you just got shot.

Those guys LOVE to be noticed. It's funny because the game isn't about them, but they think it is. When you start out officiating, you are told that if you aren't noticed it was a good game. Apparently as you rise up the ranks you try to be noticed as much as possible.

So true. Kettle/black situation at camps all the time.

slick rick Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:21pm

It should be the goal of every new official to get to this level!:)

JRutledge Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003794)
I think if you take notice, you will see that a LOT of the guys doing the big games like to be noticed. Very dramatic signals, double & triple tweets of the whistle, calling a charge from the lead like you just got shot.

Those guys LOVE to be noticed. It's funny because the game isn't about them, but they think it is. When you start out officiating, you are told that if you aren't noticed it was a good game. Apparently as you rise up the ranks you try to be noticed as much as possible.

Wanting to be noticed or just their mechanics or style? There was a time before everyone became robots that they were a requirement to be a little more demonstrative. A lot of the guys working are from that era or started in the era. I know I have been doing this 20 years and many of those guys were doing it 5 and 10 years longer than me. And all I do is when I watch a old game from the 80s are calls that are more demonstrative when it is not even that necessary in today's standards. I am not sure that is wanting to be seen, but just how they have been and what was expected. Because they are good officials, no one has told them to change on some major scale. I know guys that look like they are asleep when they officiate and that is good in some situations, but not good in all situations.

Also I think there is this great myth about "not being noticed." Well John Higgins is about as laid back as anyone and he was noticed in a big way this past Sunday. He is not a guy that often even looks like he sells a call but every call he made was highlighted. I am not on his level at all, but I know when I am on certain games, the coaches and fans notice who I am or the crew. Even know where they saw you. You think a guy on national TV is not noticed? You think he can hide? I read an article either late last season or early in this season where Higgins was featured (and I believe it was posted here) and all it talked about was how people would see him in the airport or know he was on a game the night before. We are in the social media age where people can find out all kinds of things about you without lifting a finger and we think we are not going to get noticed? Not only are there sites dedicated to bashing officials, but every box score has the official's names listed as well. I just wish we would put this myth away because that might have been the case 20 or 25 years ago, but not today. Not when people are watching games and recognize the officials or know something about them. And that includes high school ball where now games can be seen with live streaming and show all your mistakes for ever. Just the fact that Higgins is kind of laid back but every call he made in the first half was examined and credited to him is evidence of how silly that stance is. I just wish we would stop thinking that we can hide from the public that is looking for anyone and everyone to blame for a lost but the way their team played in the game. And you can be accuse of the game being about the officials when you enforce rules that you are asked to enforce by everyone but the coaches when it goes against their teams. We cannot win most of the time.

Peace

Adam Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick rick (Post 1003797)
It should be the goal of every new official to get to this level!:)

Not in any way true. Your goals should have zero to do with whether you're noticed. A desire either way could negatively affect your calls.

Adam Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003794)
I think if you take notice, you will see that a LOT of the guys doing the big games like to be noticed. Very dramatic signals, double & triple tweets of the whistle, calling a charge from the lead like you just got shot.

Those guys LOVE to be noticed. It's funny because the game isn't about them, but they think it is. When you start out officiating, you are told that if you aren't noticed it was a good game. Apparently as you rise up the ranks you try to be noticed as much as possible.

I've never been told this by anyone worth listening to. Most games it works, but there are some games where the right call will mean you're going to get noticed. Guys who don't want to be noticed tend to shy away from the calls that need made at the time they most need to be made.

SD Referee Wed Mar 29, 2017 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick rick (Post 1003797)
It should be the goal of every new official to get to this level!:)

Everybody has their own goals to reach.

My dream does not include getting to that level. Because of work and family constraints, I could never even begin to go down that path.

Good for those that do. Just remember the game is about the athletes, not you and your over the top signals.

On the other hand, maybe being those guys helps you get to the top. I have no idea.

SD Referee Wed Mar 29, 2017 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1003799)
Wanting to be noticed or just their mechanics or style? There was a time before everyone became robots that they were a requirement to be a little more demonstrative. A lot of the guys working are from that era or started in the era. I know I have been doing this 20 years and many of those guys were doing it 5 and 10 years longer than me. And all I do is when I watch a old game from the 80s are calls that are more demonstrative when it is not even that necessary in today's standards. I am not sure that is wanting to be seen, but just how they have been and what was expected. Because they are good officials, no one has told them to change on some major scale. I know guys that look like they are asleep when they officiate and that is good in some situations, but not good in all situations.

Also I think there is this great myth about "not being noticed." Well John Higgins is about as laid back as anyone and he was noticed in a big way this past Sunday. He is not a guy that often even looks like he sells a call but every call he made was highlighted. I am not on his level at all, but I know when I am on certain games, the coaches and fans notice who I am or the crew. Even know where they saw you. You think a guy on national TV is not noticed? You think he can hide? I read an article either late last season or early in this season where Higgins was featured (and I believe it was posted here) and all it talked about was how people would see him in the airport or know he was on a game the night before. We are in the social media age where people can find out all kinds of things about you without lifting a finger and we think we are not going to get noticed? Not only are there sites dedicated to bashing officials, but every box score has the official's names listed as well. I just wish we would put this myth away because that might have been the case 20 or 25 years ago, but not today. Not when people are watching games and recognize the officials or know something about them. And that includes high school ball where now games can be seen with live streaming and show all your mistakes for ever. Just the fact that Higgins is kind of laid back but every call he made in the first half was examined and credited to him is evidence of how silly that stance is. I just wish we would stop thinking that we can hide from the public that is looking for anyone and everyone to blame for a lost but the way their team played in the game. And you can be accuse of the game being about the officials when you enforce rules that you are asked to enforce by everyone but the coaches when it goes against their teams. We cannot win most of the time.

Peace

I wasn't saying hide because that's impossible. Even in high school basketball you get noticed based on the call you make. Some love the call and some hate it. Some schools notice you because they have had you many times and start to know you to some degree.

I was talking about the guys that are way too over the top with their signals and whistles. They are clearly trying to be noticed more than the average guy and clearly think some people are there to watch them.

I love the way guys like Higgins officiate with a laid back style. I did some pretty big games this year on the high school level. My style and mechanics never changed outside of my normal levels on big calls. Outside of some people already knowing who I was, they didn't really notice me in the game until a big call was made. They didn't notice me for my mechanics, they especially didn't see me fly off the baseline as the lead and make a charge call near the free throw line like you see on TV.

I just believe in proper mechanics with no over the top theatrics. That tells me you are trying to be noticed even more or think people are there to watch you.

SD Referee Wed Mar 29, 2017 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 1003802)
I've never been told this by anyone worth listening to. Most games it works, but there are some games where the right call will mean you're going to get noticed. Guys who don't want to be noticed tend to shy away from the calls that need made at the time they most need to be made.

I worded that poorly.

I meant to blend in and be part of the crew. Consistent calls. Proper mechanics. No over the top mechanics and theatrics. That is a good night. I don't equate not wanting to be noticed for the wrong reason with shying away from anything. I've had a lot of big games and big calls and I've never disappeared in a game. I would take a nut cruncher of a game EVERY night.

deecee Wed Mar 29, 2017 02:15pm

This is funny about all the "what we should do" and "what the game is about" by a bunch of guys talking about reaching a level where these officials work, yet not willing to accept that they (you, and I) need to adjust our mentality rather than the "we would do it this way".

Hey they are working the games "we want" so lets just say what they do is working? More than what you or I do is. And then there is the luck factor. They have more of "it". That's life.

CallemUp Wed Mar 29, 2017 05:28pm

While I do agree that most "big time" college referees love to be seen, I also think there are a few great officials that never default to the over the top histrionics that sometimes just annoy the fans. Mike Eades, Jamie Luckie, Darron George, Keith Kimble are a few. They quietly and professionally go about calling a game without the showtime calls. Interestingly, these don't seem to get called out that often by the media, fans or even coaches. I wonder if there's a correlation.

Adam Wed Mar 29, 2017 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003804)
Everybody has their own goals to reach.

My dream does not include getting to that level. Because of work and family constraints, I could never even begin to go down that path.

Good for those that do. Just remember the game is about the athletes, not you and your over the top signals.

On the other hand, maybe being those guys helps you get to the top. I have no idea.

Blech. That's the college/pro version of "It's about the children. It's just not true. It's really not about anyone (player, coach, official, etc). It's a freaking game.

As for the "over the top signals," remember the folks hiring these guys are well aware of their individual styles and they continue to hire them. That tells me they really don't give a crap as long as they're getting the calls right. Quite honestly, the only ones who do are officials.

Rich Wed Mar 29, 2017 06:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick rick (Post 1003797)
It should be the goal of every new official to get to this level!:)

And perhaps you shouldn't create user name after user name when you get banned for being an idiot.

JRutledge Wed Mar 29, 2017 06:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003807)
I wasn't saying hide because that's impossible. Even in high school basketball you get noticed based on the call you make. Some love the call and some hate it. Some schools notice you because they have had you many times and start to know you to some degree.

I was talking about the guys that are way too over the top with their signals and whistles. They are clearly trying to be noticed more than the average guy and clearly think some people are there to watch them.

One guys "over the top" mechanic is another guys "sell." And you said "clearly?" Why is it that clear? Again, depending on when you started there are some actions that were common place. So I disagree that it is "clear." I think it is just not your bag. I do not see any official that clearly does anything. You would have to talk to them to know what their intentions are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003807)
I love the way guys like Higgins officiate with a laid back style. I did some pretty big games this year on the high school level. My style and mechanics never changed outside of my normal levels on big calls. Outside of some people already knowing who I was, they didn't really notice me in the game until a big call was made. They didn't notice me for my mechanics, they especially didn't see me fly off the baseline as the lead and make a charge call near the free throw line like you see on TV.

You think they did not notice you. I have been noticed many times by the second I show up on the floor. And it is because they have seen me before or because I worked some other game. Sometimes you have a game where all the calls happen in your area and other games you have hardly any calls. Look I work in places where the reputation of officials are obvious. And the way officials are treated often comes with that reputation and the officials were not the guy that was "over the top." Some officials are identified by their real job or what they look like, similar to "The Black guy," or the "Elementary School Teacher," or "The guy with the big belly." All of those things I have seen officials be identified for and it had nothing to do with their mechanics. To me that is just a bogus claim overall. And Higgins as much as you love him was identified for the calls he made. Even the video shown claimed he called something far away, which was not "right" in their eyes and that alone was the reason he got noticed. And then every call after that or before, "Well that was called by the guy we were talking about." Who put him on notice? Not his mechanics. They did not talk about his mechanics. Heck do they even know what our mechanics are?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Referee (Post 1003807)
I just believe in proper mechanics with no over the top theatrics. That tells me you are trying to be noticed even more or think people are there to watch you.

Again, all subjective anyway. I see guys sell calls all the time and some person would suggest they are over the top. And I think there is a place for over the top movements on selling a call.

Peace

JRutledge Wed Mar 29, 2017 06:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallemUp (Post 1003820)
While I do agree that most "big time" college referees love to be seen, I also think there are a few great officials that never default to the over the top histrionics that sometimes just annoy the fans. Mike Eades, Jamie Luckie, Darron George, Keith Kimble are a few. They quietly and professionally go about calling a game without the showtime calls. Interestingly, these don't seem to get called out that often by the media, fans or even coaches. I wonder if there's a correlation.

I am not going to specifically point out the specific official you referenced. But I can tell you that one of these guys was accused by a commentator on ESPN (notorious for saying bad things about officials) that he always found a way to interject himself into a contest. And it was when some non-players were interfering with the court area and stopped the game to address this issue. So this again proves that if the right people are paying attention, there is someone that claims you do things the wrong way. Which is also an example of why you cannot listen to this silly standard of "We might get noticed, so do not do....."

I'm only posting this to show that not everyone is a fan of the people we think are held in a certain esteem. I have nothing against the official or the way he handled this situation. For all we know they were told to deal with this situation that was becoming a problem.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/coaI1NS7XcY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

SC Official Wed Mar 29, 2017 06:42pm

"The best officials go unnoticed."

Just add it to the list of hackneyed camp speak that is often false.

JRutledge Wed Mar 29, 2017 06:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1003836)
"The best officials go unnoticed."

Just add it to the list of hackneyed camp speak that is often false.

Often times the clinicians at some major camps are the guy people here do not think "Want to be seen." So that might be a high school thing in some circles, but I cannot recall ever being told this during a college camp. But then again if it had, it was a very long time ago.

Peace

Adam Wed Mar 29, 2017 06:57pm

I'm guessing it was originally used to convey a valid point, but that point was misunderstood and/or passed along. The lessons learned from the old game of telephone apply, and are magnified because it's something that gets passed along by people who didn't understand the original point.

The valid points?

Don't be a pioneer.
Don't grab the crap end of the stick.

JRutledge Wed Mar 29, 2017 07:13pm

Bullshit???

Shit???

Do I have to be an administrator use that language? :D

Peace

Adam Wed Mar 29, 2017 07:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1003842)
Bullshit???

Shit???

Do I have to be an administrator use that language? :D

Peace

Brad removed the filters years ago.

So no, you don't have to be an administrator to use that language.

(and dammit, I meant to edit that before I sent it.)

so cal lurker Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 1003839)
I'm guessing it was originally used to convey a valid point, but that point was misunderstood and/or passed along. The lessons learned from the old game of telephone apply, and are magnified because it's something that gets passed along by people who didn't understand the original point.

The valid points?

Don't be a pioneer.
Don't grab the crap end of the stick.

Isn't that true of so much good advice? Those who don't understand it re-frame it and turn it into nonsense.

AremRed Sat Apr 01, 2017 06:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmagan (Post 1002941)
If Ted Valentine makes another Final Four, he will break the record for most years between first final four and last final four currently held at twenty-one years by Jody Sylvester and Jim Burr.

It happened!


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