Backboard slap - BI?
 

Yes or No: Is it possible to ever have Basket Interference when a defender slaps the backboard during a legitimate block attempt?

Only respond if you think "Yes" and please cite rule/case.

Yes. NCAA 9-15-2-a-5, page 87

"Basket interference occurs when a player:

Causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder."

:cool:

Thank god you clarified to ONLY respond if we "think" yes. This is an elementary rule at the HS/NCAA level, and each treat it differently.

Is your question for NFHS or NCAA?

Now that people have responded regarding NFHS/NCAA and we have a response involving NCAAM, what about NCAAW and NFHS?

NCAAW -- same rule (and same number) as NCAAM.

FED has been answered above (by the lack of any "yes" answers)

Stop trolling for suckers dude you're clearly looking for a fight.

From The List (NFHS) ...
 

A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is legal to hang on the ring if a player is avoiding an injury to himself or herself or another player.

The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket. On most layups, the ball is going up immediately after it contacts the backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it still on the way up, and is not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. Slapping the backboard is neither basket interference, nor is it goaltending, and points cannot be awarded. A player who strikes a backboard, during a tap, or a try, so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot, and accidentally slaps the backboard, it is neither a violation, nor is it a technical foul.

Bucky, you can't tell people when or when not to respond. That's a $50 fine. I sure as hell hope you pay my fines before yours. You're piling them up...

(Moderator hat on)
I'm curious about the intent of this post as well. Unless there's some reason for the post other than the apparent attempt to pick an internet fight, I'm going to lock the thread soon.

If the OP can elaborate, though, there may be some valid discussion to be had.

Fed - 4-6, Art 2.

For arguments sake, how about if the ball is w/in the imaginary cylinder the player hits the ball and THEN slaps the backboard. He gets the BI before the backboard slap AND it was a legitimate block attempt.

The rocket scientist in me says Bucky is not a referee.

There are 2 options when slapping the backboard. Option 1, not a play to block the ball issue and issue a T. Option 2, good athletic play and play on.

Tangentially I had a game tonight where we knew we would have above the rim play. My R asked if we had anything to add so I said, "just want to make sure we agree on the high school rule....the ball can be blocked as long as it is still going up, even if it hits the backboard first".

Both guys looked at me like I was dumb and said no the rule does not say that. As the young guy I didn't argue and kept my mouth shut. So much for knowing the rules!

Send them a professionally written email detailing the rule.

After AremRed's first response, I expected there to be no more.

Not sure what an internet fight is and I do play/coach/officiate/spectate.

Anyway, had a HS game the other night and I was L. Breakaway layup that was on the rim but defender tried to block it(missed it) and slapped the backboard quite hard. Suddenly, the T whistles, runs in, and signals the basket good. The C and I exchange puzzled looks and play continues. It was as if a hush fell across the packed gym and you could feel that everyone was internally questioning the call.

The next day, I was working a college game and we discussed that playand other BI/GT scenarios. Sure enough, we had a breakaway layup, ball hit glass and was on way down above ring level and defender swatted it. T whistled and scored the goal.

I have had the backboard slap many, many times in HS games and have never seen an official score the basket. When it happened in the HS game, do you think I or my other partner should have stopped the game and brought info to the calling official at that point? Can we "wave off" a scored basket and then administer the Technical foul if we think it is warranted?

If I recall, the layup did not go in. So, if we cancel the BI call, which to me would cause more trouble than it is worth, do we administer as an IW and go to A/P?

Goaltending ...
 

If the ball was outside the cylinder, and had chance to go in, correct goaltending call in a high school game. I can't speak in regard to NCAA rules.

Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket.

If the ball was inside the cylinder, correct basket interference call in a high school game. I can't speak in regard to NCAA rules.

A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring.

If you are an official who works at the HS and college levels, you should already know the answers to these questions which you have been posting.
We also had a thread a few weeks ago on the exact situation which you claim to have experienced--a partner misapplies the NFHS rule and awards points for a backboard slap. I'm shocked that an experienced official would do nothing when that occurs.

Your questions raise more questions. Read the rules and case book over and over. Your questions and tag line still tell me your not a referee. U might put a shirt on every now and then but...,Refereees don't ask questions or make declarations as you are. That disappoints me.

Are They Not Welcome ???
 

I don't believe that the Forum is just for officials. I believe that we have several coaches, players, and fans, who often participate in our discussions.

We do, but this particular poster has written that he is both a HS and college official.

So, presuming that you are an experienced referee, what would you hypothetically do in the situation where your partner awards points for the backboard slap in a HS game where the ball did not go in?

Stop play, confirm that that was in fact what he was calling, and if so, wipe the score (assuming the shot was missed) and go the AP arrow due to an inadvertent whistle.

Sure, makes sense to me, but I can't imagine the embarrassment for the calling official and/or the crew as a whole. By asking, I was trying to get an idea if it would be worth it to most officials here. Think about it, the team that just got 2 points awarded has them taken away so they are not happy. There would have to be a quick conference with the crew and that might not go well if the calling official debates it. There would have to probably be a quick conference with the coaches and table to explain. Players and spectators are going to be confused. It just seems that there could very well be a huge cluster in the middle of a flowing game. Plus, overuling a partner might even have long-term ramifications. I am not saying that it is not correct, just trying to get a feel for how many officials would actually risk all that at the expense of getting that particular call correct.

Getting the call right is more important than saving someone embarrassment. Come on now.

As far as the coaches, if they're still upset after you explain that by rule they can't earn 2 points that way, it's on them.

And if your partner gets butthurt about you knowing the rules better than he does, that's also on him. That's why there are 3 of us, so we don't screw up simple things like this. This isn't overruling a call, it's literally knowing what the rules allow and don't.

So if you pass on this, and the game ends up being decided by a possession or two, are you still happy with the decision?

Magic Words ...
 

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Agree.

This happened in a game for me last year. Partner calls the T as the T, and I thought it was a great block attempt. I asked him if he thought it was a legal block attempt, which is the threshold at the HS level. He said he did not, that ended the conversation and we adjudicated the penalty.

I thought he was wrong since the play was on a fast break and I had a pretty good angle, and quite frankly the kid barely missed the block (although the backboard was hit very hard, I think its the severity of the hit to the backboard that throws guys off). I'm not going to argue, he cited all I needed to hear for his call, he gets to defend it to the coach, and we move on with the game.

Dug His Own Grave ...
 

Good conversation. Give rule based, factual, information. Nobody questioning judgment. No overruling. Short and sweet. Doesn't interrupt the "flow" of the game (just kidding on the "flow" part).

I would expect a college official to know the rules and interpretations of the various rule sets they are working, as well as how to correct partners rules mistakes.

As a coach, I prefer the crew to get the call right. Flow of the game and the feelings of coaches/officials are, to say the least, secondary.

I do appreciate the insight into rules and the complexities in enforcing them. I've had this very conversation with a referee recently (HSBV) and I now have come to understand the backboard can be slapped and unless the ring/backboard are moving such that they disrupt a try for goal, there's no call to be made, save for a T which sounds like a very rare and perhaps tough call to make.

High School Rules ...
 

If your referring to NFHS (high school) rules, this is an incorrect interpretation. In high school basketball, assuming there is nothing else illegal going on, slapping the backboard, even hard enough for the backboard/ring to move, or vibrate, will never result in a basket interference/goaltending call, and the basket can never be awarded.

College rules? I know more about brain surgery and rocket science, so I can't comment on the college interpretation.

Billy, you should have a limit on number of characters you are allowed to post per thread. There are bits of hard drive space out on the cloud that will never be the same.

Even if the backboard swings like a pendulum, there's no call if it was a legitimate block attempt.
the default setting is that it was a legitimate block attempt.

I had this play happen a week or so ago and I, also, was the L. BI or goaltending was called.

I didn't stop play. Why? I was the lead and I wasn't looking up there. I had no idea if the ball was touched or not touched and whether there may have been goaltending involved. Goaltending and *most* BI plays belong to the outside officials. I officiated my part of the play and had no foul.

C made a call, nobody complained, and we continued on.

It was only during a later timeout I asked if he had contact with the ball. The C wasn't entirely sure and felt he might have missed it. So be it -- we all miss stuff -- and I stand by the notion that I had no business coming in there as I had no idea why he called what he called. I don't go on fishing expeditions when I officiate, after all.

Let's All Sing Like The Birdies Sing ...
 

This ain't Twitter.

I recently sent Forum Treasurer Mark Padgett my annual dues, $25.00 cash, in small unmarked bills, as he instructed, so I can use as many characters as I want.

Wanna bet? :D

Slapped Backboard ...
 

For the benefit of non-officials here on the Forum, I would like to add: Even if the ball is balancing on the ring, about to fall into the basket, and the backboard is "swinging like a pendulum" due to a legitimate block attempt, that resulted from an unbelievably hard slap on the backboard, causing the ball to bounce off the ring, preventing the ball from going in the basket, and everybody, and their mother, is screaming "Goaltending", or "Basket interference", the official cannot award the goal, and since it's a slap caused by a legitimate block attempt, the official can't even charge a technical foul.

And even if the official doesn't believe that it was a legitimate attempt to block the shot, the official still can't award the basket. All that can be done is to charge a technical foul, two free throws by any member of the offensive team, and the ball at the division line. The official can't award the basket, even if the backboard comes crashing to the floor.

Why do such incorrect myths regarding this situation exist. I believe that it's because, about thirty years ago, a legitimate attempt to block a shot that resulted in a slapped backboard could result in a technical foul if the backboard, or ring, vibrated during the shot attempt. That rule was removed from the rulebook a long, long time ago, yet the myth persists.

I only go back thirty-six years, but I believe that the official was never allowed to count the basket under any of these circumstances.

Twelve years ago, this situation was one of the first things that I wrote in my list of The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules.

I almost lost it in a room full of coworkers and managers. :D

Big difference here. This is a judgment call (not that I agree with the call) and in the OP it's misapplication of a rule.

Move yourself to C, and T makes the call...do you still ignore it?

Only if I'm 100% sure that the T knows that the ball didn't get hit (that we have legitimate GT or BI). And then I'm just offering information -- he's gotta be the one to change his own call.