Backcourt Violation or Not?
 

Rule 4-4-6: "During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt."
Does that rule, in and of itself, mean that the play in this clip should not have been ruled a backcourt violation?
Does the Three Point Principle Prevail or Not?
(Sorry for the less-than-ideal quality of the clip...)

Looks to me as if she Ends dribble with both feet in FC. Passes to BC. Teammate catches. Last and first. Violation. If she's truly dribbling the ball with hand on top and doesn't end it and ball goes over to teammate you say it never gain d FC status. No violation.,

When she picks up the ball to throw the pass, the dribble has ended. At that point, she either has both feet in the frontcourt or one foot in the frontcourt and one foot on the line (backcourt). Video is inconclusive in my opinion but that would be the determining factor.

I think looking at it again other foot is in air. Still gives FC status. Dribble rule isn't a factor for me. I think she ends dribble so her location at that moment is key. 3 points doesn't apply.

In my opinion, she never has both feet in front court while dribbling/controlling the ball, thus ball never gains front court status. Ergo, no violation. Someone indicated foot in air, still gives FC status. Maybe for player but not the ball, and ball has to have FC status for a BC violation.

Yes, tough to really make good judgement with low-quality video.

3 points only applies on a dribble. If she's holding the ball and the only part touching is in the frontcourt, the ball has frontcourt status.

I do not ever see her holding the ball in the video.

How does she pass the ball? At that moment the dribble's ended and the ball has frontcourt status assuming the only thing touching is in the frontcourt.

She ended the dribble. A foot in FC the other in air. That means ball has FC status.

$2 fine for Bucky.

The way she passes the ball is more like she's continuing to dribble, but then decides to send the "next dribble" as the pass. She never really ended her dribble, and the ball never gains FC status IMO.

What if, instead of passing, the next dribble had hit the floor in the BC? Then what would you have?

She ended the dribble when she passed the ball. Definitions matter.

Yes, they do. And if you look at the rule about when a dribble ends, 4-15-4, there are 5 different ways the dribble can end. Passing the ball is not one of them, and none of the criteria listed are met in this video.

I disagree. She did more than push the ball in that direction.

We'll disagree, I guess, but now it's a matter of judgment.

In the situation of a one handed pass off of a dribble, at what point does the dribble end? I don't have a rulebook in front of me, but unless there is a definition that specifically states otherwise, I would think that a dribble ends when it can no longer be dribbled legally, such as when grabbed by both hands, or the passing hand goes under the ball such that a subsequent dribble would be called a carry. In the video, at the last possible instant, if the passer decided to instead continue dribbling, I think she legally could have, therefore, I would think the dribble doesn't actually end until it leaves her hand. So it had backcourt status due to the dribbling exception, it then leaves her hand causing the dribble to end with the ball still having backcourt status, and is retrieved by a teammate in the backcourt. Thoughts on that reasoning?

EDIT: You guys pretty much summarized what I was thinking-

Which of the 5 criteria in the book would you say were met in order to determine that she ended her dribble?

I agree.

Comes to rest in one hand, albeit very briefly.

Agree.

I never see her left hand touch the ball (grainy video) and it looks to me as if she makes a one handed pass across the court. I do not see the ball ever come to rest in her hand(s).

I am not debating what you are saying. I am only indicating what I see and do not see in the video.

These fines are killing me.

That is what I saw too.

Did she gain some kind of advantage with that pass? Wasnt the girl still in trouble. Wasnt the count still going? I never want to be that good and have to explain to a coach. Well I felt she ended her dribble had clear front court status and passed into the backcourt.

I would have passed on this one. Keep the game moving.

So is the consensus that:
1. If the ball came to rest in her hand in such a way that she could not continue to dribble, then FC status was achieved, and a BC violation occurred, but
2. If she batted/pushed the ball in a way that would be permissible while she continued to dribble, then the dribble did not end, so the three point test still applied, and there is no BC violation?

And the disagreement is over whether the ball came to rest in her hand before the pass was made? (From this angle/clarity of video, I think either interpretation of the factual issue is reasonable.)

Put me in the minority ... I don't think she ended her dribble, and I don't see the ball come to rest in her hand at all.

She did. She avoided a potential turnover on a trap. Penalizing good defense if you ask me.

So if no teammate was at the other end of the court, and she made the exact same movements, and then tracked the ball down, you'd have an illegal dribble? If so fair enough and I'd agree, I just don't ever clearly see a point where I tell myself, "yes, that dribble has ended."

This is one of those cases where they dribble certainly "ended" but we may not know for an absolute certainty until later.....when it is clear that it was a pass.

It was pretty clear that was a pass. While it is possible for it to have been a dribble, how many times have you seen player dribble 30 feet away from and into pressure?

And that matters how?
OK. Again, how is that relevant?

Note that "hand(s)" is to be interpreted to be either one hand or both hands. When you say she made a one handed pass across the court, you're likely also saying the ball came to rest in that one hand.

What you see is not a problem. It is how you're interpreting what you've seen relative to the rules.

I look at the play and recognize it as something I've seen million times. I'd bet anybody's house (not my own) that her left hand was also on ball. Then pass. Also ball doesn't get from where she is to other side of floor without ending dribble. Even if left hand not on it.

Now, if u ask me to forget everything I know, all past history, how ball gets over to other side of floor and say, do I see the moment on this film when dribble ends? I'd have to say no. But I still think it's obvious dribble ended.

Clear as mud.

I have an ended dribble and a pass

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What's the 5th?

I like this point. There seemed like a directed flick of the wrist in order to propel that ball across the court, but yet again, if the division line isn't a factor here and she tracks down the ball, I'm not sure I have the courage to put air in my whistle for a violation. I'm unabashedly torn about this one.

I like this counterpoint, too.

This is one of those cases where, if I'm an evaluator, I don't think I'm going to get upset over either possible outcome. This is about as 50/50 as it gets.

Let's be honest here -- none of us who work any reasonable level of hoops puts a whistle on every technical carrying violation. We'd call 20 of them a game and be sentenced to a neverending diet of freshman B girls games. Rather, we call it when the ball handler uses that carry to gain an advantage, despite what some say about "not using advantage/disadvantage on violations."

So whether I'd call a carry if the player continued a dribble after securing the ball means diddly to me. However, she ended the dribble, albeit briefly, and used that to propel/direct the ball to the backcourt. This is why I see a violation here and wouldn't hesitate to call one.

The fact that the ball may never have left the backcourt doesn't matter? I don't feel the official has a good angle on the play either. To me he is playing a guessing game which is why play on to me is fine.

Of course it matters. If it never left the backcourt, then it can't be a violation. Note that the ball itself need not touch the frontcourt to have (by rule) a frontcourt location.

I agree with the call.

Backcourt ...
 

Also agree. It was a pass, not a dribble, so the three point (foot, foot, ball) rule doesn't apply here. The instant she threw the pass, both of her feet were in the frontcourt, giving the ball frontcourt status.

Bump.

I think the dribble ends when time expires. ;)

I'd say the common sense one where she didn't dribble again.