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BigCat Mon Feb 13, 2017 06:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1000049)
If you have to say "hands off" it is already to late to be considered preventative officiating. At this point you either need to call the foul or ignore a clear violation of 10-1-4.

No. It isn't too late. You might not blow the whistle on the first one for whatever reason...happened quick etc. Doesn't mean you are ignoring anything. Tell player once then call foul.

I will say hands off when the arm goes out. Before contact. Call it coaching or whatever you want but makes the game better.

BillyMac Mon Feb 13, 2017 06:01pm

Kids Think The Darndest Things (With Apologies To Art Linkletter) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 1000150)
... not reach over line.

Sounds good. Just don't simply tell them not to cross the line, because they may think that that refers to their feet and not their hands and feet.

JRutledge Mon Feb 13, 2017 06:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1000049)
If you have to say "hands off" it is already to late to be considered preventative officiating. At this point you either need to call the foul or ignore a clear violation of 10-1-4.

I just say "hands" and let them decide what they are going to do. I still call a foul when it is appropriate, but usually say that a few times where the defender makes a decision. It does not prevent every situation, but it often confirms the foul.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Feb 13, 2017 06:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1000152)
Sounds good. Just don't simply tell them not to cross the line, because they may think that that refers to their feet and not their hands and feet.

If you are trying to give a rules clinic every situation you will take games hours. Not sure why this seems to be your goal, but we tell players and coaches a lot of things that are incomplete and do not tell the entire story.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Feb 13, 2017 07:30pm

Clinics ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1000158)
If you are trying to give a rules clinic every situation you will take games hours.

Big difference between a high school varsity game and a Catholic middle school game. Most high school varsity games require little, or no, preventive officiating. Catholic middle school games might require some preventive officiating, sometimes something as basic as where players stand on marked lane spaces, and what "one and one" means.

A lot of Catholic middle school games require a "How To Tie Your Sneakers So They Stay Tied" clinic, but I let my partner handle those.

BillyMac Mon Feb 13, 2017 07:35pm

Which One Takes Longer ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1000158)
If you are trying to give a rules clinic every situation you will take games hours.

"Don't cross over the line."

"Don't reach over the line."

Saying one over the other may add seconds to a game.

Not saying either may lead to a few extra violations that may add a few seconds to the game as well.

Remember we're talking Catholic middle school games here.

JRutledge Mon Feb 13, 2017 07:37pm

I say similar things at the high school level that I would at the middle school (not sure why Catholic or any private school matters). When they do something, they get penalized. I try my best to not nitpick things that are minor. Call the obvious for the most part.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Feb 13, 2017 07:42pm

Young'uns ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1000169)
... not sure why Catholic ... matters.

We don't see too many second, and third, graders playing in our public middle school leagues.

BillyMac Mon Feb 13, 2017 07:44pm

Part Of Almost Every Pregame ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1000169)
Call the obvious for the most part.

Agree.

johnny d Mon Feb 13, 2017 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 1000151)
No. It isn't too late. You might not blow the whistle on the first one for whatever reason...happened quick etc. Doesn't mean you are ignoring anything. Tell player once then call foul.

I will say hands off when the arm goes out. Before contact. Call it coaching or whatever you want but makes the game better.

You have made my point exactly. You say it when the hand or arm goes out BEFORE contact. That is preventative officiating. When the hand is already on, and the phrase becomes "hands off" then your are coaching, not preventing and by doing so, you are ignoring a 10-1-4 foul.

BigCat Mon Feb 13, 2017 08:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1000172)
You have made my point exactly. You say it when the hand or arm goes out BEFORE contact. That is preventative officiating. When the hand is already on, and the phrase becomes "hands off" then your are coaching, not preventing and by doing so, you are ignoring a 10-1-4 foul.

If I'm telling a kid what to do or not to do, before or after he does something somebody can always say that's coaching if they want. Frankly, there are things I see that I could call a foul and, for one reason or another I don't. Technically could be foul called but try to stop it before I really have to call it. Post play etc. We are probably not far apart. Im pretty aggressive calling handchecks on dribbler. Still have hard time calling foul when player holding ball and defender puts hand on him. I tell him get it off rather than say nothing and then call foul. If he takes off on dribble and hand stays then I call foul. Saying hands off then would be ignoring a foul as you say.

And my phrase is always hands off. Even as they are reaching out.

Rich Mon Feb 13, 2017 09:49pm

I usually say "EASY" in a lot of these situations. Sounds a lot less specific and I get the same result.

bucky Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich (Post 1000178)
i usually say "easy" in a lot of these situations. Sounds a lot less specific and i get the same result.

+1

bucky Tue Mar 14, 2017 06:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1000016)
Mostly caused by poor coaching.

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Don't move”, said to an inbounding player, by an official, before a designated spot throw-in, is another statement that should probably go unsaid. According to the rules, that player can move laterally within a three foot wide area, can jump up, and can move as far back as time, and space, will allow. Better statement: “Designated spot”, while pointing to the spot.


Kinda interesting....

From CCA Mechanics manual:

Section 12
Article 1:

When an official calls a violation:

A. Simultaneously give a single sharp blast of the whistle, stop the clock using straight arm and open hand, then drop whistle from the mouth. More than one blast should be used in unusual situations.

B. Move toward the area of violation, stop, then signal the nature of the violation. Simultaneously call out the color of the team entitled to the ball and point in the direction of their goal. Never turn your back when indicating the direction.

C. Indicate the throw-in spot and inform the player that he/she may not leave the spot.

D. Make eye contact with your partners prior to placing the ball at the player’s disposal for the throw-in or placing it on the floor if the team is not at the spot in time.

E. After boxing in players, hand, bounce or put the ball at the disposal of thrower and begin the visible five second count.

Raymond Tue Mar 14, 2017 07:06pm

On a designated spot throw in I'll tell the thrower-in that it's a spot throw in and he can go as far as back as he wants.

I will continue to do it that way. I do it for all the teams.

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