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-   -   Purdue - IU Blarge (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102237-purdue-iu-blarge.html)

Rich Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:35am

The C had the best look and made the right call. Full stop.

deecee Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:46am

by rule you have a double foul. It's very clear and is only really applicable if both parties have a preliminary. The L should have had second crack as this was the C's call the whole way.

RefCT Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:56am

Should they have counted the basket? In NF, you count the basket if successful on a blarge. Not sure of the NCAAM rule-set.

BigT Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers (Post 999857)
I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the huddle/post game. L looked pretty heated, enough that it appeared T went to him to calm him down.

I saw that too. Pretty funny actually.

RefCT Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:58am

Sigh....the BTN says they were both ejected after the play because of their 5th foul. I wish the Network could get the terminology right. Ejection vs DQ are two different things...

Swanigan, Bryant Ejected After Double Foul - BTN

AremRed Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefCT (Post 999864)
Should they have counted the basket? In NF, you count the basket if successful on a blarge. Not sure of the NCAAM rule-set.

Wait. You cannot score a basket with an offensive foul by the shooter under either NFHS or NCAA-M rules, even if the ball has been released before contact. Why would this change if a double foul is ruled? The offensive part of the double foul negates any basket that could be made.

The key is what the POI is....if the ball has been released then you go to the arrow because no team control. If the ball has not be released then you give the ball OOB to the team who had it in possession, in this case Indiana.

RefCT Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 999871)
Wait. You cannot score a basket with an offensive foul by the shooter under either NFHS or NCAA-M rules, even if the ball has been released before contact. Why would this change if a double foul is ruled? The offensive part of the double foul negates any basket that could be made.

That is not the case for a blarge - see (as it was in 2012-2013, which is what I have at work) case play 4.19.8 Situation C. RULING: Even though Airborne shooter A1 has committed a charging foul, it is not a PC foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored and play is resumed at the POI, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line.

BigT Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefCT (Post 999873)
That is not the case for a blarge - see (as it was in 2012-2013, which is what I have at work) case play 4.19.8 Situation C. RULING: Even though Airborne shooter A1 has committed a charging foul, it is not a PC foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored and play is resumed at the POI, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line.

Dang it you beat me to it...GJ

RefCT Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 999874)
Dang it you beat me to it...GJ

I am very rarely correct on the forum, but I knew I was correct because I remember reading this years ago and saying "that's weird".

I was wondering what the ruling is under the NCAAM rule set.

Rich Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 999871)
Wait. You cannot score a basket with an offensive foul by the shooter under either NFHS or NCAA-M rules, even if the ball has been released before contact. Why would this change if a double foul is ruled? The offensive part of the double foul negates any basket that could be made.

The key is what the POI is....if the ball has been released then you go to the arrow because no team control. If the ball has not be released then you give the ball OOB to the team who had it in possession, in this case Indiana.

Because them's the rules. It's a double foul, not a combination of a player control foul and a block.

(Edit: I've been beaten to this multiple times. What I get for filling my coffee, I suppose.)

just another ref Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballgame99 (Post 999843)
For NFHS can one of us "pick up our flag" and defer to the other?


Yes, one can, and should, in my opinion. Most disagree. Consult your local listings.

RefCT Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 999877)
Yes, one can, and should, in my opinion. Most disagree. Consult your local listings.

We had a blarge in a state final a couple years ago. Personally, I think CT being a 2-person state and then going to 3-person for the state quarters and up helped cause it. Regardless, Peter Webb comes to our finals and evaluates the officials, providing feedback. You can be darn sure this adjudicated as a double foul.

JRutledge Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballgame99 (Post 999843)

Who's call should this be? Shouldn't the C wait on this? For NFHS can one of us "pick up our flag" and defer to the other?

No, you cannot pick one over the other. Sorry, but that poster that keeps telling everyone you can, does not seem to recognize that every single time this is brought up, this is the standard in the current book and I have never heard anyone from the NF contradict this position. Unfortunately at this moment, you cannot choose once you signal. This is why you do not signal at all in a double whistle situation in a hurry.

Quote:

4.19.8. Situation C:

A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns on foot to the floor. One officials rules a blocking foul on B1 and the other official rules a charging foul on A1. The try is is (a) successful or (b) not successful.

Ruling: Even thought airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored; play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. In (b), the point of interruption is a try in flight; therefore the alternating-possession procedure is used (4-36)
Peace

bob jenkins Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefCT (Post 999873)
That is not the case for a blarge - see (as it was in 2012-2013, which is what I have at work) case play 4.19.8 Situation C. RULING: Even though Airborne shooter A1 has committed a charging foul, it is not a PC foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal is scored and play is resumed at the POI, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line.

Hasn't the ball been released in that case play? (I don't have the books handy).

We did go round-an-round on this when a double foul became POI (many years ago). If it's before the try -- team in control. If it's after the release -- count the basket (or arrow if the try is unsuccessful). If it's during the try (before the release) -- ?

Rich Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 999883)
Hasn't the ball been released in that case play? (I don't have the books handy).

We did go round-an-round on this when a double foul became POI (many years ago). If it's before the try -- team in control. If it's after the release -- count the basket (or arrow if the try is unsuccessful). If it's during the try (before the release) -- ?

If it's before the release, it's in player control, therefore team control, right?

Then it's a double foul and A gets the ball back POI.


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