Condescending Coach
 

How do you handle a coach who uses the following verbage after something doesnt go their way.

Its ok little Johnny, the ref missed that one. keep playing hard, he wont miss the next foul.

Good defense Johnny, clearly you were set.

That was good D little Johnny, keep it up (as Im reporting).

the list could go on and on....

does your stance change if coach is doing the talking, staring at you while you are reporting?

When little Johnny plays crappy defense again the next time down the court, and commits another foul, I make sure and call that one on Johnny too, hoping that the coach gets the hint that I'm not changing my calls to appease him, but that he needs to coach his players how to play proper defense.

If the HC is saying this loud enough for the officials to hear him then he really using a passive-aggressive tactic to complain to the officials. At an appropriate time, in a professional manner I would remind the HC that one of his job is to instill good sportsmanship in his players and that he needs to do that by leading by example.

MTD, Sr.

Individual comments like that I ignore. But if it becomes a pattern or repeated, then it can become a problem for the coach.

I keep calling fouls on Johnny.

If the coach wants to be horrible at his job that's up to him.

If he's yelling and being obnoxious and keeps saying we're missing calls maybe I'll grace him with a short comment. Honestly this is just noise I'm ignoring almost every time.

I will usually ignore it unless I've had enough then I will say something like "you're doing him a disservice teaching him to expect us to make an adjustment."

Not all officials would be comfortable saying something like this, but I like to get to the point. 9/10 times I'm not saying anything. Coach wants to be a piss poor teacher of the game, that's not really my problem.

Keep calling the foul if I feel it is a good foul call. He/she will either learn how consistent we are going to be on that play or they will adjust.

You could say something, but actions speak louder than words. Eventually they will realize that what they say is not going to change anything and either sub appropriately or adjust to what you are calling. Comments might only exacerbate the issue. But if you are of a certain stature that might be OK to use words in response. Just be aware there is a fall out when you comment on some of these.

Peace

"Coach - let's trade places. You come out here and call the game, and I'll sit on the bench and act like an ***hole." :p

Look up the meaning of "condescending" and "sarcastic." I think you will find "sarcastic" is more accurate of the coach's attitude. The coach is mocking you pure and simple and showing contempt for your calls. What I have found most effective is to address the coach very soon, like after the second or third comment and ask him nicely, "You're not going to keep this up all game, right?" Most likely he/she will not answer but the message will be received and the comments will stop. If not, take care of it. Officials do not need to put up with this type of sarcastic immaturity for more than a brief period.

Translation: WHACK!!

I am not sure I totally agree with this because the coach in this case is clearly trying to act like he has superior knowledge of what took place. So there is sarcasm in the comments, but they are condescending to act like he knows better of the call. Either way, I would not change what I do because a coach is mad about a call. I just will make sure I do not miss any other similar calls throughout the game no matter who they are on. I guess it is about perspective.

Peace

At the very least, the coach has advised you that he has no desire to work with you. I'm able to tune that out, but that is going to mean I won't hear any of his questions.

I like the question billy posed, but you'll need to be prepared to respond or ignore his feigned ignorance. You have some options to approach the coach without threatening a T. Personally, I'll let that crap slide now and then, but the coach gets no leash and if his players start to get out of line I'm not going to work with him (he's already indicated through his actions that he doesn't want to work with me on sportsmanship).

If it's on virtually every call or non-call that doesn't go his way, I'm shutting it down. "Coach, this passive aggressive commentary needs to stop now."

I have T'd coaches for comments they have made to players, but were obviously meant for the officials.

I had one coach years ago who had been chirping most of the game despite being comfortably ahead. I made a call against one of his star players in the 4th quarter and as she came to the bench he loudly asked her if she had committed the foul. I popped him with a T for that.

From that game on I never had a problem with that coach again. I no longer work games in his conference, but I see him around and he always gives me a genuine greeting and conversation.

Sometimes coaches are testing the bounds. If it is something that is persistent I address it with something like "Coach, I am not going to tolerate those comments". If they reply with the standard "talking to my player" response, I tell them they need to ensure I am not in earshot.

I have even less tolerance for players who do this.

"You can do that 4 more times, Johnny."

Sometimes sarcasm has to be met with sarcasm.

Peace

This is one of the situations that I'm trying to improve myself on this year. In years past, I would have a very low tolerance for this and would probably whack after telling him to stop. Even for one comment after that like "I'm talking to my player," I'd whack. I'm really trying to be more approachable this year, in an effort to get to the state tourney. Reading how you more experienced and better officials would handle it is why I really like coming onto this forum.

A serious answer (which carries the risk of "breaking into jail"): Find a time to get next to the coach and say, "If you have a reasonable question about a call, I'll be glad to answer it. But, I can't have you making comments like that."

If he says, "I was talking to my player," then respond, "If you are saying it so I can hear it, you are also talking to me."

Perfect!

Being approachable is subjective. And what people think is approachable is "taking all their s##t no matter what." That is not being approachable. Being approachable should be to talk to them when they have legitimate questions or comments in your direction. And giving them calm and reasonable answers. That does not mean you have to take whatever they give you or not be aware of whatever they are giving you is unsporting. I have directly confronted coaches on their BS only to have them apologize later. We cannot take this job personally, but we do not have to put up with their personal BS either.

Peace

Great point! Perhaps the official should say directly to the assistant right next to the head coach, "The guy that did this last week got whacked before the quarter was even over."

Exactly. Approachability is a two-way street, and the hypothetical coach in the OP is demonstrating he has no desire to have an actual conversation about anything. He thinks he's being clever, when all it's doing is hurting his players.

1. He's teaching them that the refs are just doing it wrong but that somehow magically we're going to adjust to the players. As if we're somehow averse to giving johnny his 5th foul.

2. When a coach acts like this, he shows me he doesn't want to work with me on sportsmanship issues. If that's the case, when johnny starts questioning my calls I'm more likely to just go straight to the T and be done with it. When his AC starts chirping, I'm more likely to go straight to the T and be done with it since the coach's actions tell me it's not worth my effort to work with him.

Now that's funny.

And when the HC objects, you turn to him and tell him "I wasn't talking to you."

Awesome!!!


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Tweet, technical foul on the head coach for unsporting behavior.
That should put a stop to it, but if it doesn't the second T will.

I have said this more than once in the FT lane prior to shots. Usually goes something like, "No matter what your coach says, you can only play good defense like that 4 more times and then you can't play anymore today."

Everyone seems to get the message.

In our local kids rec league, we would always have a Board member at each game, wearing a jacket with the league logo on it to identify him or her. If there was a problem with a coach or a spectator, the Board member would go over and talk with them. This is a strictly recreational league (with about 1500 players) and we would not allow any poor sportsmanship. If the behavior of the coach or spectator was really bad, they would be directed to leave. If they refused, the Board member would tell them that if they didn't leave, the game would be stopped and all the players, coaches and parents of the players would be told it was because of that coach or spectators actions.

It didn't happen much, but it was always effective in getting the coach or spectator to leave. Oh yeah, if it was a coach, his (or her) name would be taken and there would be an interim Board meeting to deal with the incident.

God, it's like in baseball when a borderline pitch is called a ball and the coach bellows from the dugout "GREAT PITCH JOHNNY!" or "Didn't miss by much!"

I have no tolerance for this crap at all, especially in sub-varsity games. Coaches know what they're doing. The sooner it gets addressed the better.

A great idea, which I've suggested to one local kids rec league with recurring problems. I was told it was too burdensome. I no longer work that league.

This is nothing more than passive aggressive "talking to the officials through my kids" technique.

I usually ignore it the first time, address it if I'm close to the coach the next time I hear it (coach, you're not gonna talk to me through your kids....), whack if needed.

I've served some T for this a handful of times before when its been constant or particularly loud. But for the most part, I find this is something that a coach will try once or twice but usually get the message when Johnny is on the bench with 3 fouls in the 1st half.

I think some of these comments are for the referees but some are in fact for the kid.

When coaching kids baseball, I have said "great pitch" on a ball -- but not to challenge the umpire, but because a ball that just misses can be a great pitch.

Similarly, when coaching hoops, I have said "great defense" when a foul was called, not necessarily because I'm disagreeing with the foul, but because there are players who need to play closer to the foul line than they naturally do and as a coach I think it is completely OK that the player got the foul -- maybe it was close, maybe I didn't agree, but I want that kid to play with that level of aggression and not back off because he happened to get a foul.

To be clear, I'm *not* disagreeing that there are coaches who are using those comments to bait referees -- there *clearly* are. But not all of those comments have anything to do with referees. (And yes, I have this perspective as both a coach and a referee.)

This is precisely why I tend to ignore this comment unless it becomes persistent.

I have the benefit of a coaching perspective in addition to an officiating perspective as well and think I'm pretty good at discerning the difference between genuinely talking to the kids and trying to talk to us through the kids.

If a coach says something like, "way to move your feet, or good defense" then asks me what the kid did wrong then I have no problem answering them.

Just last night I had a foul on a play where a post defender established LGP, moved his feet well laterally to maintain position, but then brought his arm down to contest the shot and made illegal contact on the shooters arm. Coach asked me what he did and I said "he was legal until he brought his arm down." And the coach conveyed that to the kid. That's good coaching and communication for coach, official, and player.

I had another play last week where I called a block on a play that I probably could have passed on. Coach, who I know pretty well, was a little excited and yelled "great job, Johnny." After reporting, coach says to me, "what did he do wrong?" I responded that the dribbler got his head and shoulders past the defenders torso at the time of contact. He politely disagreed, I said something else to him as I backed away, and he responded, "I hear ya but I'm just excited b/c we been trying to get him to move his feet like that since the summer." No issue, we all move on.

So again, I get the coaching perspective. Sometimes they are innocuous comments reacting to their players, which is why I usually ignore comments like this for the most part. But I've been doing this long enough to know the difference between that and talking to us through their players. And the coaches know the difference as well. They often like to act like they don't though. This, and when it becomes repetitive, is when we have problems.

Persistence in comments and phrasing in every situation becomes important.

A couple of instances:

Last weekend had a game A1 was way out of control on fast break. B1 just stood in front of the backboard and got run over on a layup attempt. Easy PC. As we are headed the other way A1 coach is up and screaming "She can't just stand there and not play defense . . . " as I look up thinking T for the tone and where it might be headed I saw him stalking B1 down the floor still hollering "you need to pull up two feet shorter under control and finish that. You just bailed her out. All she had to be on that play was unathletic and in the way." So cleary he was coaching his kids. (I've got nothing here.)

Later in the weekend. Had Team A's stud. Jump up and try to shock a ball screen takes it hard in the numbers but was moving into the ball handler. My partner comes up with a block. Coach shouts to his player "Thats what we want to see on defesne. I thought you got there, they didn't. Keep trying to make that play." I don't think that is passive aggressive or criticism, just coaching. Maybe I'm too thick skinned. (I've got nothing here.)


Monday night: Coach B to her player in transition "They are going to be allowed to pass and crash all night. And they (us) are going to let them. Keep putting your body there but we are going to have talk early to get the switch. Play moved on so we didn't stop, but I did go to coach during a dead ball next trip and ask her to make sure she was coaching her players and not the officials. I wasn't going to be able to talk her if she was making judgements about our integrity or ability. She sat down. (If this happens persistently or again after we talk it is going to be a T.)

I see a big difference between most of these legitimate coaching comments ("way to move your feet", "good defense", etc., and "you keep doing that jonny, your feet were set." As VaTerp noted, it gets easy to discern the difference after time. My default setting is to hear them as legitimate coaching comments, so if the coach is trying to be passive-aggressive, I'm not going to catch it. I trust my judgment to be able to say that if I think he's being a p/a jerk, he's likely being a p/a jerk.

Last year, I called a few fouls in a row which resulted on a players second foul in the first period. Coach complained and life went on went to the other end then came back and he complained some more. I told him enough. Went back to other end and when I came back was C in front of his bench. He couldn't have been more than 2 foot from me and said in an angry loud voice "now I got a kid who can't play bc I can't trust you."

After I called the T he looked at me and said I was talking to my kids.

Great call he was talking to you.

And instead of using the T to calm himself down, now he's insulting your intelligence. Love it when they double down on stupid.

Ya can't fix stupid!

But you can sometimes silence it. :)

Had a small school BJV coach who was getting mouthy so I asked him to slow down on the comments and he sarcastically laughed at me. I ignored him and told my partner. So temped to serve T when its sub varsity on that.

Any thoughts.

Then Monday I had a freshman coach in a tight game getting more vocal and gesturing more. One point he didnt like a no call and threw his pen at the bench.

That was easy enough.

With the laugh, I'd likely ignore that and allow him to decide whether to actually listen to you.

I'm not sure, if a coach laughed in my face that would be hard to pass on. I'd grudgingly ignore it, but he has zero leash the rest of the game if he does something like that (which I guess is what you meant by your last part of the sentence).

:) Yep.