I one time had a partner end a game halfway through the 4th quarter. Walked off the court sputtering something leaving me to clean up the pieces. Worst part was he had to stick around for the Varsity game. I was never so happy to leave. AD asked him what happens and he said, "tired of the fans bitching and the game was turning into a rugby match."
Some days you're happy to be home by 6. |
OK - this isn't a "Dave-ism", but it's kind of close. Some of you may remember a former poster to this site named Rainmaker. Quite a few years ago, we were working a boys MS rec game. At halftime, she went over to the scorer's table. Some jerk stood up a few rows behind the table, held his glasses out in front of him and said to her, "Hey ref. You want to borrow my glasses?" She gave him our standard response, "Why? They're not doing you any good." The other parents cracked up and were laughing really loud. The jerk got PO'd, put up his fist and said to her, "You want to come up here and say that?" It was as if he was so mad that he wanted to hit her! The place went quiet. She looked at him again and said, "Why? Is your hearing bad too?" Again, the gym cracked up. The guy was so taken aback that he left!
I asked her where she got that second reply. She said it just popped into her head. She also asked me to walk her to her car after the game, just in case. I did, and the guy was nowhere to be seen. |
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Personally, if someone says they aren't comfortable doing that id wonder if the second T was warranted. If it is/was and the coach continues to act like an idiot and won't leave, i don't know why we wouldn't follow the rule. I think officials need to be aware that tossing a coach is a big deal and you need to be sure its necessary. Then beware of what to do if he won't leave. This is certainly an extreme example but i just didn't agree with the "never ever" language. |
Here in the Sunshine State, we have a slightly different protocol that prevents the newbie, clueless AD issue. All FHSAA sanctioned athletic events must have an "Administrator on duty". Sometimes it's the AD but usually a grisled old asst. principal or teacher looking to make a few extra bucks. I think they get paid a daily fee for serving, whereas the AD just gets his/her annual compensation so they generally don't like the additional responsibility of crowd control. Part of our state mandated pre-game duties is to find the AOD upon arrival. Part of their duties is to greet officials, show them to the dressing area, and resolve any crowd issues upon request. They are in charge of the entire facility during the contest outside the lines of the court. Often, during basketball season, there are soccer games taking place at the same time so they usually shuttle back and forth, but they are always present. Seems to work pretty well. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never seen one shirk their responsibility.
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Is this the "travesty" portion? Your comment above implied that the rule stated specifically that the penalty for a coach refusing to leave is a forfeit. While most would certainly consider that a qualifying event, I don't see anything in the written rule that actually requires this action. A suspension isn't a refusal to follow the rule, in other words. For the record, I have threatened a forfeit to get a coach off the court, and I'd do it again in that situation. His team was winning, big, and he was all about winning. |
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I wouldnt give second T, coach lingers and then say forfeit. I dont want that and would do everything i can to avoid doing it. But....if he is still being an idiot and just wont leave, to the point that you and i are going to leave, that's a travesty, he's not allowing his team to play....And at that point, after hes made it a tremendous travesty, i dont know why i would worry about saying the word forfeit on my way out. He earned it. I just dont agree that we should "never, ever," declare a forfeit. I've never had to do it but if somebody acts that bad, to the point we cant play and im leaving, i will say it on my way out. Thx |
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Okay, when I say "we were" I really meant "I was." I'll also add that there's really nothing stopping a governing body from overriding my use of the word "forfeit" and finishing the game from that point. |
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I dont think we disagree much. I just didnt agree with the fellow who said never ever forfeit the game, even if the rule said shall. If it gets this bad, i think we should to show we're not afraid to do it if someone's that big of an idiot. As you said, the governing body can do what they want. |
Let's Go To The Videotape ...
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5-4-1: The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor. |
Refusing to play is a specific situation that doesn't apply to the coach being instructed to leave. I've been part of that situation as a player, and it's different. There's a reason it says "shall" in this part.
Now, the sentence Billy puts in red is the important one here, and it's the one I would use. I'm going to give the AC every chance to get the coach off the court, but if push comes to shove, we can't be afraid to pull the trigger. This says "may" because there are other tools we can usually use to get there. If an official "suspends" instead of "forfeits," though, I'm pretty sure any sanctioned governing body is going to declare this a forfeit and not worry about the semantics. |
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Misty Water-Colored Memories ...
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Am I right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.? |
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My sophomore year, we were preparing to play a perennial state champion. They were dominant, and had a reputation for running up the score. Before the game, our coach asked if we'd be ok with walking off the court if they ran the score up again. Start of the fourth quarter, they're up 90-30 (rough numbers), and they send their starters out. Coach calls our guys back to the bench and we proceed to walk off the court. That is refusing to play. Coach took a two game suspension for that. |
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