Thanks. Used your previous post in my original discussion with him.

Some people think there needs to be PC to have (or to "begin") TC. While that's *usually* true, and is often stated as a short-cut to get people to understand the concept, it's not always true.

Prior to the rule change to have TC on a throwin, that was the case....team control only started (in the old rules) when player control was obtained. But of course, the TC rule on throwins, in addition to being mess up in other ways, messed up the simply concept of control.

The issue of how to handle fouls occurring during a throwin could have been so much more easily handled with a change to the foul rules than a change to the definition of team control.

Agreed (as you know).

A PC foul can happen without PC, so why not just have a definition that allows a TC foul to happen without TC.

Disposal ...
 

9.2.9 SITUATION: Following a violation, the official has properly signaled and
awarded a throw-in to Team A at a designated spot. No Team A player comes to
the spot even though the official has allowed ample time for them to respond. The
official then places the ball on the floor and begins the five-second count. (a) Both
A1 and A2 step out of bounds and A1 picks up the ball; or (b) both A1 and A2
step out of bounds and A1 picks up the ball and hands it to A2. RULING: In (a),
A2 must immediately return inbounds. In (b), it is a throw-in violation when A1
hands the ball to A2.

[QUOTE=Camron Rust;992906]Prior to the rule change to have TC on a throwin, that was the case....team control only started (in the old rules) when player control was obtained.

But, the resumption of play procedure has been around for awhile???? So, that wasn't quite true even under the old rule???

They need to get rid of the resumption-of-play procedure. So dumb. Just give us the ability to call a delay of game.

In what way? Placing the ball on the floor didn't start either team control or player control. It just made the ball at the disposal of the team.

(EDIT for clarity: UNDER THE OLD RULE)

This is correct. Directly from the Case Book.

Camron is right. About five years ago the NFHS made an editorial change to include this action as part of the ROP procedure. Bob's thinking predates that change.

[QUOTE=Camron Rust;993001]See 4.12.2.d. A team is control "when a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw in". Am I misinterpreting this? It seems clear to me.

[QUOTE=ronny mulkey;993195]That's true NOW. Camron was talking about the rule before the whole TC foul changes.

It USED to say something like, "TC begins when PC begins. PC begins when a player is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds." (emphasis added) So, there was no PC or TC during a throw-in (or when the the ball was at the disposal).