Referee mag question
 

Having trouble with this in my head. Somebody help me out:

When is the resumption of play procedure not in effect?
A-following a timeout
B-following the intermission between periods
C-following halftime
D-following a foul

Says answer is C per rule 4-38. Aren't B and C basically same situations? And why isn't procedure used? Thanks in advance

The correct HS answer is "D".

In NCAAW, both "C" and "D" are correct.

IN NCAAM, "B" does not apply, and "C" and "D" are correct.

Sorry, forgot to mention was concerned with NFHS. Thanks bob! So the magazine got the answer wrong, that makes a lot more sense now! I'm sure it's just a misprint of the correct answer.

Just for giggles, why isn't ROP used after halftime in college?

I think I'm going to go with C being correct for NFHS. The resumption of play rule in rule 4 says it is used when a team doesn't make a player available for a throwin or after a timeout or intermission. I think it is used after a foul if a team doesn't make a thrower available.

Rule 10 also says it is a team T for delaying the game by more than a minute in either half. This applies when a team isn't on the court to start the second half. If they are on the court the resumption of play procedure is used. It could be written much better obviously but i think we use the resumption of play in all those situations unless a team isn't on the court at end of halftime. It's a T then.

in NFHS you absolutely use it after a foul. You can even place the ball on the floor at the free throw line if the delay to resume is by the team entitled to shoot free throws. See 8-1-2

If there's a foul and NO timeout, then it's an immediate T if the shooting team doesn't have the shooter ready, or the "defensive" team doesn't have two players in the lower spaces. This is NOT resumption of play. See 10.4.5

To start the half -- if the team is still in the locker room, count for a minute and then issue a T. If the team is at the bench, but doesn't come on the court, use ROP.

Im thinking foul and throwin. NO FTs. I said thrower but meant thrower inner…(the rule uses the term thrower for player making the throw in.)

While you do put the ball on the floor, this is NOT the ROP procedure.

4-38 is entitled "Resumption of play procedure" and says in part "It is used when a throw in team DOESNT make a thrower available OR following a timeout or intermission."

When we go to rule 7 it simply says it's used between intermission or after timeout. That doesn't match the definition. I would submit that Rule 7 should mirror rule 4-38. If I call travel on A ball is dead. If B doesn't come to the throw in spot I put it on floor and start counting(live ball) . That is resuming play. It's just bad question.

Probably a bigger point here is avoid using the ROP by being vocal etc. Get them out of the huddle or a player to the throw in spot.

Team or player control
 

A bigger question for me: By placing the ball on the floor for resumption of play, is it now player control or team control?

Not unless there's a timeout involved.

If you read 4-Control, you'll find words the the effect of:

Player Control exists when a player is holding or dribbling the ball.

Team Control starts when .... the ball is at the disposal of the team.

So, in the instance being discussed, there is no PC, but there is TC.

I believe it is. It fits the definition precisely.

Am I wrong?
 

This post has cause a running discussion with a friend of mine where we questioned did placing the ball on the floor create player control or team control? We have been back and forth on this. But, it created another question in my mind on a practice I've done for years. For years I have always placed a ball on the floor in situations not resumption in nature (not following a TO or intermission). For example, I can't get Team A to come get the ball after a normal violation call on Team B, such as traveling. No matter what I did, I couldn't get a player over there. After some point, I placed the ball on the floor and began counting. Is this wrong?

1) Yes -- there is TC -- it's right from the definitions. There is not PC -- also right from the definitions.

2) You are right to put the ball on the floor. There's a case in 9.2 (I think) that has this happen

Thanks. Used your previous post in my original discussion with him.

Some people think there needs to be PC to have (or to "begin") TC. While that's *usually* true, and is often stated as a short-cut to get people to understand the concept, it's not always true.

Prior to the rule change to have TC on a throwin, that was the case....team control only started (in the old rules) when player control was obtained. But of course, the TC rule on throwins, in addition to being mess up in other ways, messed up the simply concept of control.

The issue of how to handle fouls occurring during a throwin could have been so much more easily handled with a change to the foul rules than a change to the definition of team control.

Agreed (as you know).

A PC foul can happen without PC, so why not just have a definition that allows a TC foul to happen without TC.

Disposal ...
 

9.2.9 SITUATION: Following a violation, the official has properly signaled and
awarded a throw-in to Team A at a designated spot. No Team A player comes to
the spot even though the official has allowed ample time for them to respond. The
official then places the ball on the floor and begins the five-second count. (a) Both
A1 and A2 step out of bounds and A1 picks up the ball; or (b) both A1 and A2
step out of bounds and A1 picks up the ball and hands it to A2. RULING: In (a),
A2 must immediately return inbounds. In (b), it is a throw-in violation when A1
hands the ball to A2.

[QUOTE=Camron Rust;992906]Prior to the rule change to have TC on a throwin, that was the case....team control only started (in the old rules) when player control was obtained.

But, the resumption of play procedure has been around for awhile???? So, that wasn't quite true even under the old rule???

They need to get rid of the resumption-of-play procedure. So dumb. Just give us the ability to call a delay of game.

In what way? Placing the ball on the floor didn't start either team control or player control. It just made the ball at the disposal of the team.

(EDIT for clarity: UNDER THE OLD RULE)

This is correct. Directly from the Case Book.

Camron is right. About five years ago the NFHS made an editorial change to include this action as part of the ROP procedure. Bob's thinking predates that change.

[QUOTE=Camron Rust;993001]See 4.12.2.d. A team is control "when a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw in". Am I misinterpreting this? It seems clear to me.

[QUOTE=ronny mulkey;993195]That's true NOW. Camron was talking about the rule before the whole TC foul changes.

It USED to say something like, "TC begins when PC begins. PC begins when a player is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds." (emphasis added) So, there was no PC or TC during a throw-in (or when the the ball was at the disposal).