Block that was or wasn't
 

Lets put all nonsense about conspiracy theories and star treatment aside.

Last night at the end of the first half there was foul called on Raptors big man Biyambo trying to block Lebron.

I think the call is probably correct especially in real time, but is a great example of the inconsistency of this call in higher level basketball and what takes precendence in regards to determining incidental contact. In some cases we see officials who if the block is clean unless contact after the fact is excessive let this go, other officials who will not allow any contact regardless quality of the blocked shot because the contact is what put them in position to get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v380rlzNaCI

I have no problem with the call. Biyombo does not have legal guarding position and makes contact with the body of the offensive player. If players don't want to get called for fouls like this then they need to do a better job of showing that they got ball first and then got body, which Biyombo did not do.

Do I even have to say it?

STUPID ANNOUNCERS!

"That's a clean block."

Okay, but what about all the body-to-body contact? Was that "clean" too? :rolleyes:

Biyambo wasn't even close to vertical, and there was more than a little body-to-body contact making this a very easy block foul call.

That's one of those really tough ones. Clean up top but the defender is jumping into James.

Watching the game on the Raptors feed, the announcers have convinced themselves that the NBA is out to get the Raptors. All they talked about was how can the Raptors not shoot one free throw in the first half. Yet the Cavs shot 2 free throws in the 2nd half. No mention of that by the announcers.

Wtf. First they complain about foul disparity, and now they are using free throw disparity to claim inconsistency?? Thank god they are not tracking Total Free Throws on the scoreboard (yet).

It was not clean by any respect. There was a lot of arm contact to get the block and he was not in LGP when jumping forward to make the block. If he got the ball first and then some body contact, I would have had no issue with a no-call, but most of the contact was with body and arm first. It was a close play but the right play.

Peace

This is a large assumption that wasn't backed up by any facts.


1) It was a good call
2) Calling across the paint isn't a sin
3) Better players are better because they are better. Knowing how to get foul calls is one of many attributes.


Looking at plays and learning is great, but this incessant need people have to call out NBA/whatever officials is grating.

Fantastic play! Sends a message that nothing is coming easy, and if you are coming to the rim you better bring your big boy pants. But also clearly a foul. I couldn't believe how the announcers were carrying on about how clean it was. If that is clean, what is a foul?

The public is good at being wrong.

The Center saw something that he deemed to need a whistle on. The lead passed, sure, but it's very plausible he wasn't able to see the entire play clearly.

Inconsistency?

Are you an official?

Each play is a snowflake. By that I mean that each play has elements that make it unique. People that cry out inconsistency seem to think that every play is the same and the only thing that matters is whether a foul was called at the other end or not.

Your comments about LeBron getting start treatment above (I restored the deleted post as I think it gives everyone here great insight where you're coming from) tells me that either you're not an official or you haven't been doing this long enough to realize how much bullshit that line of thinking really is.

Could it be because, I don't know, he had the best angle to see the illegal contact?


Maybe they weren't passing on it. Maybe they, I don't know, couldn't see the illegal contact and did what we're trained to do: not blow their whistles.

Probably cuz the defender came from the Slot's area so he would know whether the player had LGP or not.

Like was said before, this play was not about consistency as it is the only play we saw. Now if you saw the rest of the game that is fine, but this play in question was the only one most of us here likely saw. Also I doubt there were many other plays like it in the game considering it is alley-oop.

Another problem with your comments is that you talk about consistency with the rules, but you do not talk about the rules that actually apply here. The defender was not in a LGP by jumping towards a airborne shooter or player. I do not know what consistency has to do with this play as this is a foul most of the time and if it is not, then there better be an explanation. I also do not know what has happen this year that consistency is so much down.

Peace

If you really follow the NBA style of officiating as closely as you claim you should know that NBA officials don't care about this. The most important thing is who has an open look on the play, regardless of how far away they are. You should know for example that the Trail official has the best look at rebounding fouls on the weak side block.

If distance from the play is in some way relevant to you ... and you really are an official ... PLEASE go to more classes.

Angle is FAR more important than distance (applies to officiating nearly every sport).

Last word on this one. This is not to question an official at any level who made a call or non-call.
It is a foul, especially on the replay angle that we can all see. I am not making any inference that these officials are being inconsistent at all in this game.

Do I see a obvious foul on this play from the center who is moving, looking through 3 other players in front of him and sees the back of the defender? Sorry, no I don't.
He saw something that his partners may or may not have seen, but he blew his whistle and made a call.

The lead is looking directly at these two players, but does not look like a good angle to see the body contact.
If the trail comes in on his angle being able to look through the players and we have a double whistle, then we have confirmation that 2 officials saw the play and agree on a foul.
It looks like by the trail's head movement that he may have not had the best look, so thus hold your whistle.
I don't see any of the officials with a clear open look of the entire play, because of the ending angle and the movement of the other players in the off ball areas.

The administrators made a point that this is a learning environment and needs to stay as such. Please keep your comments cordial and support your fellow officials.

I'm watching on my laptop and picture is small but it looks like Blue #8 who comes down to set the pick on the defender guarding LeBron on the inbound pass, wraps his arm around the defender and turns him to the inside to clear the outside path for Lebron towards the basket. Granted it doesn't look like the defender tried to move much but it sure looks like he could play TE in the NFL.

The C appears to move to position adjust. At the start of the play there are four players in his PCA but only two of them are close enough to each other to cause any worry. One of the players who was in his PCA happens to be the one who goes for the block so it's not unreasonable for the C to follow him to the basket. I would say that's what he's supposed to do because that player would be a secondary defender and the C is the one who'll know whether he has LGP.



That's the system in a nutshell. If you help you're doing so because you're calling something your partners can't see.



Yes, Dellavedova makes contact with Carroll but the initial contact is legal (Carroll's head turns right before he backs into Dellavedova so he knows the screener is there). Once Carroll realizes he's screened it appears as though he stops making any attempt to follow James to the goal. Illegal screens cause contact and delay the person being screened. Even if the initial contact was borderline, Carroll appears to delay himself. The arm stuff between the two of them is really window dressing.

Inconsistency? From my perspective this was an easy call. I disagree that this was ball then body ( using something akin to the 80/20 rule).. The speed and direction of the defense along with the layup make this a foul. The one freeze frame does not do this play Justice.