Slight Body Contact on drive to basket

[buckeye38]

New official here. I am having a tough time, especially as lead in 2 man crew, judging if slight contact is a foul when the defender is step for step with dribbler on a drive to the basket. I do not want to punish the defense for keeping good position and not pushing but I seem to get in trouble with my no calls because the game becomes more physical. There is no hacking or pushing just what I consider incidental contact. Also players know to fall away from the shot making it look like a push or has happened. I can't seem to get consistent with this call. Has anyone had to overcome this dilemma?

[SNIPERBBB]

Identifying who initiates the contact and determining whether or not the defender has LGP would go a long way in clearing up your dilemma.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by buckeye38

New official here. I am having a tough time, especially as lead in 2 man crew, judging if slight contact is a foul when the defender is step for step with dribbler on a drive to the basket. I do not want to punish the defense for keeping good position and not pushing but I seem to get in trouble with my no calls because the game becomes more physical. There is no hacking or pushing just what I consider incidental contact. Also players know to fall away from the shot making it look like a push or has happened. I can't seem to get consistent with this call. Has anyone had to overcome this dilemma?

Buckeye38:

Welcome to the Forum.

First: now you know why we are paid the big $s, LOL!

Second: You will no doubt receive responses referring to acronyms that refer to position and displacement. But ignore them for now.

Third: Practice, practice, practice! What do I mean? Officiate as many games at all levels (youth, JrHS, FR, JV, VAR, CYO, and recreational leagues.

Fourth: Start be calling it close, because you are correct with your thinking about the game becoming too physical. But as you gain more and more experience you will start to what and is and probably is not a foul.

Fifth: Have veteran officials evaluate you. Also, it is not too early in your career to attend a camp for young officials, where two-man crew officiating is emphasized.

And I assume by your user name that I can tell you: GO BUCKEYES!!

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Call what you see. That is all you can do. You have to see those plays over and over again and consider the rules that apply. Was the players vertical, LGP or did the contact that is illegal cause an advantage. Do that and you will get better. Oh and you can see plays over and over again by just simply watching film as well as officiating a game.

Peace

[jTheUmp]

The stages of a new official (applies to all sports, but seems especially prevalent in basketball):

Stage 1: Call nothing because a) you didn't see anything or b) you're not sure if something is a foul or not.
Stage 2: Call everything because you're getting used to seeing things that happen on a basketball court, but you're anticipating the call too much so you call things that aren't there.
Stage 3: Develop the balance between "there was contact that was incidental" and "there was contact that wasn't incidental"

Sounds like you're in Stage 1. We've all been there. In my case, it took me about a full season of rec and low-level high school ball to get from stage 1 to stage 2, and about another season after that to get to stage 3. But even Stage 3 officials can end up with Stage 1 and Stage 2 calls from time to time.

The key is practice, observation of other officials (both in person and on film), mentoring, and training.

Stick with it... it'll get better, I promise. We'll be here to help when you need it.

[BigCat]

I would tell everyone that the whistle needs to be blown more. If a defender is hugging a player to the basket call a foul and make them give some space. I have always said "if I'm going down..I'm going down blowing my whistle."

When you do high level high school or college ball there's an art to what you call or don't call. At lower levels, don't try to judge advantage disadvantage. If there's contact that's more than a tap call a foul. Dribbler needs space, cutters need to be able to cut without being chucked...It is better to error on the side of blowing too many whistles than not enough.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I would tell everyone that the whistle needs to be blown more. If a defender is hugging a player to the basket call a foul and make them give some space. I have always said "if I'm going down..I'm going down blowing my whistle."

When you do high level high school or college ball there's an art to what you call or don't call. At lower levels, don't try to judge advantage disadvantage. If there's contact that's more than a tap call a foul. Dribbler needs space, cutters need to be able to cut without being chucked...It is better to error on the side of blowing too many whistles than not enough.

Sorry, wouldn't be true to my screen name if I didn't say I disagree, at least somewhat. Do not fabricate a foul with your whistle when there is not one. Don't guess, be as sure as you can, before penalizing a kid with a phantom foul call. But this comes, as others have said, with a lot of practice. Try seeing the defender in this play from the OP, instead of focusing only on the ball handler as he drives to the bucket. This will help you determine LGP, then be sure HE is responsible for the contact, that you haven't just seen something inadvertent, possibly initiated by the offensive player. Good luck! I hope you do well and have a long career. Visit this forum often...lots of good knowledge and debate, much of which I'm sure will follow this post

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Sorry, wouldn't be true to my screen name if I didn't say I disagree, at least somewhat. Do not fabricate a foul with your whistle when there is not one. Don't guess, be as sure as you can, before penalizing a kid with a phantom foul call. But this comes, as others have said, with a lot of practice. Try seeing the defender in this play from the OP, instead of focusing only on the ball handler as he drives to the bucket. This will help you determine LGP, then be sure HE is responsible for the contact, that you haven't just seen something inadvertent, possibly initiated by the offensive player. Good luck! I hope you do well and have a long career. Visit this forum often...lots of good knowledge and debate, much of which I'm sure will follow this post

Your screen name gave us the New York Knicks in the 90,s. A football game/fist fight. I'm not saying make a phantom call but if a player is being ridden to the basket..call a foul. The NCAA has realized that advantage/disadvantage is/was a disaster. That is why we have automatics now. Blow the whistle more than less. Everyone has to make their own choices. This is my position.

And if I had to choose between my position and letemplay's...id choose mine. Imagine that. I am a rocket scientist btw....

[crosscountry55]

I agree that advantage/disadvantage has been superseded by the freedom of movement initiative (which FINALLY made some headway this past season). And I would also agree that there are the supposed automatic fouls in Rule 10-6 that help take some of the guesswork out of officiating.

The problem is that none of the automatics apply to the situation described in the OP. This is about LGP and space entitlements, pure and simple.

My advice for this situation is arguably cliché, but valid nonetheless: see the play start, develop and finish....and have a patient whistle.

For a new official this is MUCH easier said then done, but as you see (many) more plays it will become easier. The level you're officiating also makes a difference; contact as you describe may have a big impact on the offensive player in a 5th grade game but hardly any impact in a varsity game.

And this is why officiating is as much art as science.

[bas2456]

I think the acronym that someone alluded to above is RSBQ (Rhythm, Speed, Balance, and Quickness). If the contact affects any one of the four elements to the point where the offensive player is disadvantaged, call the foul.

I think it also depends on the level of ball you're officiating. Younger players, especially on the girls side, will be affected more by a little contact. As players get older and stronger, the little bumps won't affect them and they're able to play through it.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Your screen name gave us the New York Knicks in the 90,s. A football game/fist fight. I'm not saying make a phantom call but if a player is being ridden to the basket..call a foul. The NCAA has realized that advantage/disadvantage is/was a disaster. That is why we have automatics now. Blow the whistle more than less. Everyone has to make their own choices. This is my position.

And if I had to choose between my position and letemplay's...id choose mine. Imagine that. I am a rocket scientist btw....

And I'm a rocket science INSTRUCTOR

I say let em play, not let em fight..kidding aside, I have to say the NBA and the game the OP is officiating are two very different animals, wouldn't you agree to that? Pros have long benches, get 6 fouls before DQ, and get paid to park their butt on a bench after some hacking, and so on. A high school team or player or lower level, for this guy starting out and asking for our help and opinion, can be so much more effected by unnecessary whistles, or as I said guesses, that I was just cautioning about not getting too tweety, for fear of missing one or two fouls.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by buckeye38

New official here. I am having a tough time, especially as lead in 2 man crew, judging if slight contact is a foul when the defender is step for step with dribbler on a drive to the basket. I do not want to punish the defense for keeping good position and not pushing but I seem to get in trouble with my no calls because the game becomes more physical. There is no hacking or pushing just what I consider incidental contact. Also players know to fall away from the shot making it look like a push or has happened. I can't seem to get consistent with this call. Has anyone had to overcome this dilemma?

We've all been there and it'll just come with reps. Eventually you will just know when the defense is gaining an advantage and when the contact isn't enough to warrant a foul. Just remember to officiate the defense. Don't call contact if they didn't do anything wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dad

Eventually you will just know when the defense is gaining an advantage and when the contact isn't enough to warrant a foul.

Once the scholastic season starts, new officials should observe as many top notch varsity officials as they can. Under no circumstances should they be leaving the site earlier than halftime of the varsity game following their subvarsity game.

If a new official was observed by varsity officials showing up early for their varsity game, new officials should be asking for advice from more experienced varsity officials, "So, did you see anything out there to help me out?". Ask for advice, don't wait, and expect to be given advice.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Once the scholastic season starts, new officials should observe as many top notch varsity officials as they can. Under no circumstances should they be leaving the site earlier than halftime of the varsity game following their subvarsity game.

If a new official was observed by varsity officials showing up early for their varsity game, new officials should be asking for advice from more experienced varsity officials, "So, did you see anything out there to help me out?". Ask for advice, don't wait, and expect to be given advice.

This. You gotta beg, borrow, and steal experience. Find one or two guys who you can text and call to ask questions. Find out who is working the game after you and ask if they would be willing to come out and watch. As a Varsity guy now I have some JV guys ask what I saw out there when they come in the locker room but unless they ask me before I wont know to be looking.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Once the scholastic season starts, new officials should observe as many top notch varsity officials as they can. Under no circumstances should they be leaving the site earlier than halftime of the varsity game following their subvarsity game.

If a new official was observed by varsity officials showing up early for their varsity game, new officials should be asking for advice from more experienced varsity officials, "So, did you see anything out there to help me out?". Ask for advice, don't wait, and expect to be given advice.

My first year I believe I stayed after MAYBE 2-3 games at most. My second year maybe a dozen and it sure wasn't to watch the officials. By my third year I was getting playoff games most 8-10 year guys wish for. Keep in mind, the most important part here, is that I do not at ALL consider myself well above average. I do, however, know my limits and put in countless hours fine tuning my craft. Watching most varsity officials just wasn't something I thought was worth my time. I could spend an hour or two in the book, video recording myself at home, watching my own games, watching past HS 5A+ state final refs. Watching NCAA refs on TV, etc.

I'm sure this method works wonders for many, but I'm just not wired to get much out of it -- and I know that. I wouldn't say what was said in bold is 100% true for everyone.