Illegal box out
 

I am 6'5" and normally play with people much smaller than me. I was playing with someone about 6'1", but more built than I am and whenever I tried to box him out or post up, he would stick his leg in between mine. This wouldn't actively trip me, but it prevented me from moving at all, or else I would be tripped. I've never seen someone use these tactics before and called him out on it, but he claimed it was legal. Is he allowed to do this, since he's not actively tripping me, even though he's restricting movement?

No.

To summarize AremRed's response....

No.

And you are going to call what type of infraction for this? Certainly not a personal foul, since the way it is described makes it sound as though there hasn't been any contact. Sounds to me like a something similar to the team that sets moving screens all day, but the defensive players are too dumb to run into the screen, and instead get put at a huge disadvantage and try to go around the person setting the illegal screen. Since an illegal screen is a personal foul, not a violation, there isn't really anything against the rules until there is contact between the two players.

Post Play ...
 

2015-16 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

1. POST PLAY
New information has been added to the Rule Book that addresses cleaning up post play.
It is legal for offensive and defensive players to touch when both are maintaining a legally established position. Illegal contact on a post player is any tactic using hands or arms or just generally demonstrates rough physical movements that allows a player on offense or defense to control the movement of an opposing player.
It is a foul and should be ruled as such when:
a. An opponent is displaced from a legally established or obtained position;
b. An arm-bar is extended and displaces an opponent;
c. A locked and/or extended elbow displaces an opponent;
d. A leg or knee is used in the rear of an opponent to hold or displace;
e. Holding, hooking, slapping, pinning or pushing the leg or body of an opponent;
f. An offensive post player “backs-down” and displaces the defender once that defender has established a legal guarding position.

In the 2015-2016 POEs, rebounding, too:

2. Rebounding
[snip] Some examples of illegal rebounding activity are:
C. Using the hips or knees to hinder or impede an opponent.... [emphasis added]

"Sticking his leg in between mine" so the OP couldn't move without tripping? Hard to imagine being unable to move without tripping, as the OP says, unless there's some contact, certainly enough for a foul.

Block

So the opponent is sticking his leg between the players legs without making contact? :rolleyes:

But once there is contact the guilty party is the one sticking his leg between the other player's legs: infraction of the Principle of Verticality.

MTD, Sr.

Violation?

Sounded like there was contact to me...and contact that was preventing the player from moving. If there had been no contact, I don't think the OP would have even noticed the action.

I guess i need to see it to understand what you are talking about. He can put his leg between yours as long as he is not applying force-displacing you etc. if he is moving you out away from the basket or under it using that leg its a foul. just placing a leg between yours without any force really isn't a foul….If you had position first, he puts leg in, you move and he holds or you trip it is a foul.

Frankly, if he has one leg out front he can't guard you. Go to the block, post up, tell your team to throw you the damn ball high, catch it, pivot, shoot and score.

Finally, its pickup basketball. Sometimes you have to send a message.

Yay, thug ball.

Also, he definitely can guard him. The whole point of illegally holding someone with your leg is to get a huge advantage. Wouldn't be much point to it otherwise.

Question to OP: Was your weight being supported by his leg? I've played college ball as a PF/C and seen enough as an official. I don't understand the position and how it hindered the movement.


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If he shoves me away from the basket posting or under it rebounding it is a huge advantage. Otherwise, it hurts more than helps. My foot goes right next to his and he is beat. Frankly, I don't see how a leg holds me. If I'm 6'5 and u r 6'1 I assure u that you could not guard me on the block.

And as to your "thug ball" comment I will say that there are well understood pickup rules for players who can actually play. I haven't played in years but, when I did I would never call foul on opponent. They were on their honor. If I fouled I would call it...no matter what. If someone plays like BS then u have to deal with it. Usually only once.

And I get if a leg is pushing you. But holding...can't see that worth complaining about. Shocking for me to see u say it's a huge advantage. It just isn't.

Honor ...
 

Back when I was playing playground pick-up basketball, there were certainly a lot more "I got him" than "I got it". A lot more.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., Did You Miss Your Nap Today ???
 

I think Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. meant violation with a small "v" (common dictionary definition), not Violation with a capital "V" (Rule 9).

This is also in reply to Bigcat. The move the OP is talking about isn't going to work on any sort of decent player DII+. It's a ghetto tactic in mediocre street ball where tree trunks stick there leg between taller weaker players to gain leverage. It's an attempt to make you go AROUND their leg, and also so you can't back them down/spin/etc.

Given the OP said he's normally playing with much smaller people, I'm guessing it's not exactly competitive. Dumb park tricks are going to work if you don't have fundamentals.

This is weird. Totally different atmosphere I grew up in.

He means that he would say "I fouled someone as opposed to he fouled me. "

Again, if you are or ever were a player, you do NOT call a foul on the opponent. He calls it or you play through it. If he repeatedly hacks and doesn't call it on himself then u have to deal with it. I would knock him to the ground until he got the messsge.

Not saying you are wrong but I still don't get it. I'd actually like to see it to judge the situation.

I changed the word to infraction.

MTD, Sr.

In NCAA-M's it would be a foul for invading the personal cylinder.

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Pariah ...
 

Bingo. In my playground experience (asphalt courts, metal chain nets, first ten to make free throws play, winners stay on court), players that call a lot of fouls against opponents, or don't call fouls on themselves, usually go home with a lot of scrapped knees, and black and blues.

This sounds like the old high-center trick, where you wedge your leg under the big man's butt so he loses his leverage and can't back you down. I used to teach this when I coached middle school. It is effective in holding your ground, especially when you are outsized. While technically illegal, so is an offensive guy muscling down a smaller guy when the smaller guy has position, so as long as the smaller guy is only using this to hold ground I'm guessing most here wouldn't call it. As soon as the little guy starts displacing the big guy, then yeah.

The OP sounds like a big guy whining because the little guy won't let him push him around. As long as he's not shoving you around big man, play ball.

Memories. I'm still used to offense being the one calling the fouls. If you called stupid stuff you were inevitably about to get hurt. My philosophy was always if I can't finish through contact I don't deserve to be out there. And-ones get all the women once you get to competitive ball. :)

Invading the personal cylinder is not a foul until the invading person illegally contacts the opponent. It is not a foul to simply be within another player's cylinder.

Well duh ;)

Point being if there is contact based on this positioning, it will be illegal contact on the defender under NCAA-M's rules.

No Officials Required ...