When is cheating not cheating vs when is cheating unsportsmanlike?
I know we've discussed this here before but I can't seem to find the thread.
We know that it is an accepted strategy that teams commit fouls late in games, knowing the penalty will be free throws but in an attempt to regain possession. Coaches train it, officials officiate it. Rules are being purposefully violated, but it is an accepted tactic and we move on. Now lets move to my Saturday. In the stands (fan only this season). Late in game under 10 seconds. A1 is at the line down 4. Makes the first. Coach yells out something that is apparently code for we're going to miss it and go for the boards. He's yelling out and making gestures that ressemble make a cookies, while trying to get confirmation from his shooter. A1 nods at the coach and his teamates start talking and getting ready. Coach for team B says something to B2 who nods. As A1 takes a high arcing rainbow, B2 steps in early before the shot is released. Shot is missed as everyone crashes after ball, whistle blows violation shoot again. This slapstick act happens 3 times, before official walks over and gets into a brief heated exchange with Coach B, then comes back finger wagging at B1. B1 looks at coach who barks something at him. A1 goes for the intentional miss (no violation by b2 this time) but B gets rebound gets, fouled. B ices it at the line. If A1 is missing on purpose and B2 is violating on purpose to negate the miss . . . when does this dance end. Is it up to us to end it? Do we have means to end it? I mean we could offer an unsporting T to one team for not playing within the spirit of the rules but which team do you go after? How would you handle this in your particular Romes. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
I think you have two options here. It's not a violation to attempt to hit the rim and that's all as the shooter. It is, however, a violation to put your foot over the line.
There are a few case plays that remind me of stuff like this. Most of them say to just ignore the violation. Examples are stepping out of bounds to stop a fast break by the other team, or crossing the line on an in-bounds pass during a running clock to stop the clock near the end of the game. Option 1: Ignore the violation and most likely what I'm doing. Follows most of what NFHS publishes on purposely doing violations to disadvantage the other team. Option 2: Give the defense a technical. I would really try to avoid this option. Maybe you can justify it with some vague rule usage, but I'm far more inclined to just ignore the violation. Keep in mind this is what I'm doing if I have definite(100%) knowledge the offensive team is trying to miss the shot. |
I seem to recall an interp that this becomes an unsporting T on B (or B1, or the coach -- I forget the specifics)
|
Quote:
|
Once it's clear to me that the defense what the defense is attempting to do, I'm going to warn their coach that the next one will be a technical foul.
Both teams are doing things to <s>delay this game</s> gain an advantage, but only one is breaking the rules to do it. |
Quote:
If time is not a factor, the defense should be penalized with the violation or a technical foul for unsporting behavior |
Quote:
|
A team shall not:
ART. 5 . . . Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts: c. Commit a violation of the throw-in boundary-line plane, as in 9-2-10, after any team warning for delay. I'd cite this as being close enough to article c. above and after warning the coach, would have no problem issuing a technical. Before that point, however, I would be watching closely for pushes/holds by both teams in these situations. It's pretty impressive that in the scenario presented, the free thrower was able to avoid violation himself by hitting the rim all 3 times, and that there was no pushing/holding/jersey grabbing during the rebounding action for 3 straight attempts. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'd call it a clear advantageous position in this scenario which the defense is attempting to negate. |
The foundation for this to be considered illegal by B is The Intent and Purpose of the Rules passage in the front of the book:
A player or a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. |
This seems simple enough to penalize Team B with an unsportsmanlike technical.
There is nothing in the rules that states it's illegal, in any situation, to purposely miss a free throw. Heck, by just shooting the free throw they are turning the game into an "action contest". But it is against the rules to go into the lane before the free throw is released. Doing so is not only a violation but actually causes the game to turn into an "actionless contest". And turning the game into an "actionless contest" is grounds for a technical foul. |
What if it was obvious what was happening, but on the second attempt A1 accidentally banks it in? Would you count the point and still call the T?
Also, if A has the possession arrow, then would the best course of action be to miss the rim or step over the line and commit a violation yourself after B has entered the lane? That would go to alternating possession arrow, correct? |
Quote:
|
If you aren't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. :D
|
Quote:
If I hadn't warned him, play on. A shouldn't be required to use their possession arrow to counteract B's illegal advantage. |
In the words of Jesse Ventura "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
So if I'm following properly, majority feel that:
- Player B violating leads to an actionless contest and that would be grounds for warning/administering a T. - We have no concerns with player A missing shots intentionally because there is no clear rule stating you have to try to make shots. - The penalty for violating early (team recieves additional shot) is not sufficient penalty if it happens intentionally or excessively. I'm good with all those interpretations. Thought the way the officials dealth with it in game was fine just curious what others would do. As a follow up is there a point where you would administer a T for a team for any of the following actions: - Team fouling to garner possessions once the outcome is no longer in doubt (they are down 30-40 pts with a minute left or maybe they are up big and just want the ball back to go for a school record) - Team down by a large margin and being pressed heavily simply starts inbounding the ball the other team. - Player intentionally throwing ball out of bounds or committing a violation to get a whistle (wants a sub, avoiding live ball turnover, etc). - PLayer throwing the ball out of bounds simply to run time off the clock before it contacts out of bounds or to change the position a team must inbounds from. |
Quote:
2) No, this wouldn't lead to an actionless contest as the clock would continue to run. 3) No, nothing illegal with this. Ball goes to other team so no actionless contest. 4) No, nothing illegal with this. Ball goes to other team so no actionless contest. |
Quote:
A simple rule change might fix this "loophole." Extend the delayed violation to be ignored if the offense gets the rebound. None of your follow up plays could lead to an interminable game. Some consider the 2nd situation to be a travesty. I'd ask the coaches if they want to shorten the quarter. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
-No, although I would call the game tighter against the team pressing while being up by a large margin late in the game (assuming I read you right). -No, again it could be to get in a sub that doesn't play much. -No. If you hadn't added the part about "simply..." then I could see a tech if it was done in a taunting or unsportsmanlike way. But I doubt it. |
Quote:
He was a first year coach, and his school had won multiple state championships under the prior regime, often running up the score on their opponents. This particular team was pretty weak, however, and was having trouble breaking the opponent's press. Game was in a tournament, on a neutral court, but there were plenty of parents from this school in attendance. After they did it twice in a row, I blew my whistle and told him to knock it off or I'd forfeit the game right there. |
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29pm. |