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-   -   In the act of shooting? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100825-act-shooting.html)

Dad Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 979666)
I avoid the "in my judgement" phrase. My judgement is always under scrutiny by the coaches, players, etal.
I may say "from my view," or "from my side," or "from where I saw the play," he was shooting. That way, the emphasis on our differing opinions of the play is on the differing angles, and my statement somewhat validates his opinion, without telling him he's totally wrong.
I don't want the focus in the verbal interchange with the coach to possibly lead him into a response such as, "Well, your judgement stinks!" . . . or worse.

I'll tell a coach he's wrong all night long. My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened. Why would you ever want a coach to think his opinions are legitimate?

Rob1968 Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 979693)
I'll tell a coach he's wrong all night long. My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened. Why would you ever want a coach to think his opinions are legitimate?

To me, his opinions are just opinions. To him, they are fact, or an attempt to manipulate our relationship.
I have all the authority and all the power, that are needed, in the game and my work during that game. I don't surrender any of that by being congenial, within the recognized boundaries of our relationship. And when those boundaries are in question, I can so state, and/or demonstrate, by using the tools I have at my disposal.

A wise person has been quoted as saying, "In any relationship, respect and courtesy are the only things which can be expected. Anything else, has to be earned."

and, "When involved in a disagreement, if possible, allow your adversary a means of escape. When he realizes that you have the advantage, he will probably take it."

Dad Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 979696)
To me, his opinions are just opinions. To him, they are fact, or an attempt to manipulate our relationship.
I have all the authority and all the power, that are needed, in the game and my work during that game. I don't surrender any of that by being congenial, within the recognized boundaries of our relationship. And when those boundaries are in question, I can so state, and/or demonstrate, by using the tools I have at my disposal.

A wise person has been quoted as saying, "In any relationship, respect and courtesy are the only things which can be expected. Anything else, has to be earned."

and, "When involved in a disagreement, if possible, allow your adversary a means of escape. When he realizes that you have the advantage, he will probably take it."

Oh dear.

johnny d Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 979693)
My calls aren't opinions, they are what happened.

Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

zm1283 Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:37pm

"I had it on the shot"

And don't let him scream at you anymore without it being addressed.

ChuckS Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 979700)
"I had it on the shot"

And don't let him scream at you anymore without it being addressed.

OK, thanks. Being my 1st season, never called a T, maybe that could have been my first, or at least a warning (would have been my first warning, too)

pizanno Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:58pm

try finishing with this line
 
"...and we'll call it the same on your side."

Helps move focus on to the next play.

Dad Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 979698)
Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

My calls are exactly what happened. When this stops being the case I'll stop officiating.

so cal lurker Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:06pm

The referee has an opinion (judgment) and the coach has an opinion. Unfortunately for the coach, only the referee's judgment matters. In my mind, that is why the formulation "in my judgment" or Bob's lengthier one are valuable -- they contain a reminder that it is a matter of the referee's judgment. Anything we can do as officials to de-escalate tension, in my mind, is a good thing -- we don't need the coach to agree that we "won" the dispute, we need to get the game moving and people doing what we want them to do. (Anyone who finds the coach-referee dynamic a struggle might consider reading Verbal Judo, the Gentle Art of Persuasion, it is written by a former cop and has some interesting strategies on de-escalation and defining what one is trying to achieve in an interaction.)

so cal lurker Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 979709)
My calls are exactly what happened. When this stops being the case I'll stop officiating.

Oh, please. Your calls are exactly what you see and interpret using your judgment. And they are, for the purposes of the game, the facts. But pretending that you always accurately perceive what happened is naive and arrogant. You've been around long enough to know that sometimes an angle or blocked view or distraction will make you see something wrong.

Jesse James Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 979709)
My calls are exactly what happened. When this stops being the case I'll stop officiating.

Mark it. The day stand-up comedy was replaced by internet sit-down material.

Dad Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 979711)
Oh, please. Your calls are exactly what you see and interpret using your judgment. And they are, for the purposes of the game, the facts. But pretending that you always accurately perceive what happened is naive and arrogant. You've been around long enough to know that sometimes an angle or blocked view or distraction will make you see something wrong.

I agree with just about all of this. This is my view of most officials so I wouldn't call it arrogant. My margin for error on calls is very small and I usually know when it happens before I see the tape. My point, is when officials blow their whistle, statistically, they are almost always correct. I don't think a margin of error under 5% night in and night out should be called an opinion, especially to a coach. Judgement? Sure. I've never had a call where I was 100% sure, a coach said blah blah blah I'm sending the video, and I ended up being wrong. I'm wrong... all the time, but like most officials, it's rare. Usually when I'm wrong with a coach I will blatantly tell him what I saw and that I didn't get a complete picture of the play.

When I blow my whistle I'm almost always going to be right, just like almost every other official. If the coach wants to start pretending my calls are opinions and therefore all subject to debate, my ears may start tuning them out.

Adam Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 979698)
Don't throw out a shoulder patting yourself on the back. Your calls are your opinion of what happened, which may or may not actually be what happened.

Pretty sure his tongue is somewhere in his cheek.

Dad Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam (Post 979718)
pretty sure his tongue is somewhere in his cheek.

Was fun while it lasted.

Adam Fri Feb 05, 2016 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 979719)
Was fun while it lasted.

Someone had to tell 'em.


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