Hanging on the Rim
 

In two recent games, I've had a partner call a T for hanging on the rim on a dunk attempt, once from L, when I passed on it from T. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with either decision (even though I wouldn't touch that call from L), but I'd like to hear from some of you on what you look for when judging whether or not to call a T for hanging on the rim on a dunk.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Hanging on the rim is ok if they're trying to avoid injuring themselves/others. (the exact wording of the rule is different, but that's spirit of the rule)

So if there are other players in the 'landing zone' or if the dunker winds up being momentarily off-balance as a result of dunking, handing on the rim is acceptable.

Showboating, doing chin-ups, etc, are all disallowed by rule.

My personal opinion: If the dunk is in a crowd, I'm more likely to give leeway for a momentary rim-hang. If it's on a breakway, less leeway assuming he's not off-balance.

You cannot hang on the rim period. UNLESS it's to avoid injury. Make sure no one is underneath him and he doesn't appear off balance. If those are NO then T.

And further, all you can do is avoid injury. So if you do a pull up, etc. you should get a T even if just hanging would have been okay.

You could be on the same page as me, but from reading this I'm far more lenient.

It's rare, but I've seen some really bad calls for "hanging on the rim." I'm giving players the benefit of the doubt if I ever think they're making sure there is a safe spot to land. Even on a fast break, all alone, if I'm dunking, I want to stop swinging and make sure there's no one coming up behind me that may have their feet somewhere under me.

Chin-ups and other actions like it are an easy tell for a T. However, some players could take longer to feel like it's safe to let go of the rime. No one underneath + not off balance doesn't necessarily equal a T for me.

This is right, and where a lot of confusion takes place. I am really lenient on hanging on the rim Ts, and I've had partners that catch these 'pull ups' that I miss. Here are a couple videos.

1) [NBA - but still applies]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfaaN-MFC_k

2) Kentucky vs. Mississippi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XRIqAXSYpo

3) High school (I think?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwOmGZys74

Thoughts?

My crew the other night got dinged for not calling a T when the player pulled up on the rim instead of just hanging there.

#1 & #3 are T's, Anthony Davis' was not, IMO.

What about this from one of my high school games this year? I'm Slot. https://streamable.com/spzh

I don't think #2 is, lots of players underneath him and we don't have a great angle of what's going on underneath.

Close, but I'm on the lenient side so I would have passed.

With that said he probably does just a very slight pull up but almost immediately after that he appears to be looking down to make sure nobody is below him before he releases.

In regards to the other 3 videos... I agree that 1 and 3 are good calls. #2 on the Brow was a bad call.

I wouldn't even think about calling it. Pulling up on the rim a bit helps the swinging and control a bit. He let go once the momentum pretty much stopped.

Hey, that was at my alma mater. That's interesting.

I think they want us to get that one in Ohio based on the video they should from the tournament last year.

That's a T. There is no planet where his body had to go parallel to the ground with that dunk. He doesn't have to release right away but that's an easy T IMO.

What's the reason for wanting you to get it? I'm pretty lenient on dunks for safety reasons, but maybe one of these days the other side will get me.

The feet going above the bottom of the backboard was given as a good indicator that the player unnecessarily exaggerated his swing.

A very similar dunk to this one happened in the OHSAA state finals (I think it even got discussed here). It was shown and the referee who called the T was commended both for the call and his calm manner in which he called it.

I agree, though I'm pretty lenient too. From a safety perspective, I imagine it's a lot safer to pull up just a little bit for control purposes. Without some tension from pulling up, the player has to be worried about his hands losing his grip and his body swinging through and going flying. Maybe in a college or pro game where these guys have a lot more body control, but in a HS game, I'm letting that go for sure. To me, and maybe someone else has a better interp, that's still grasping the basket to prevent injury to himself.

There is no planet where one needs to go parallel to the ground after a dunk. That only happens when the player dunking pulls his whole body up.

It doesn't matter that he pulled his body up, to whatever extent, as long as he was trying to prevent injury to himself. He may have pulled up more than he anticipated, but he's not an NBA player so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't see anywhere in the rules where going parallel to the ground is an automatic T. He let go as soon as he got his balance and was able to land on his feet.

We're going to agree to disagree on this one.

He's allowed to *hang*. He's not allowed to *pull up*.

What Rich said. The rule allows for a player to hang on the rim to prevent injury. He simply didn't do that. That's as easy a T as I can see. He might as well have slapped the backboard on the way down.

I have no problem disagreeing with a position that is 100% incorrect. I have seen at least 2 similar videos where my HS and college assignors and interpreters have said it's a T. I'll go by their directive and my judgement.

Sorry, I don't have my case book on me, but where does it specify the difference and that he's not allowed to pull up to avoid injury? Hanging and pulling up sound like terms that have different meanings to different people. In your case, pulling up sounds like the player has body control and he intentionally pulled the rim down further for reasons other than safety.

When his momentum is taking him forward that fast, he has to put tension on the rim to get him back to a safe position. In my case, I call that pulling up. If he puts a little too much on it, his body goes up. If I think he's doing it to avoid injury vs. showboating, I'm ok with it.

In my heyday when I got up there now and again, the only way I did what happened in the video was when I pulled myself up and drove my feet up. Otherwise the worst that happens is you dunk, and sway about 30-45 degrees maybe. But parallel to the floor is deliberate. This is from experience, playing, coaching and officiating. He wasn't going THAT fast that his momentum carried him that high. If his momentum was that fast you have a better chance of him being pulled off the rim and hitting the deck hard.

That was showboating. "Hey look at me, I just sole the ball, and got a fast break dunk so let me put a little extra on it."

This is the type of behavior that as a group officials do a real crappy job of addressing. Especially when coaches, the FED, assignors, instructors, EVERYONE harps that we need to curtail poor sportsmanship.

Great. Super helpful. Good to know this position if 100% incorrect, without citing any specific rules, case plays, or similar videos. If the intention of your reply was to antagonize, it was successful.

All right - that's helpful. I still think he was pulling himself back in part for safety, but if it's exaggerated and unnecessary like you describe - that's a T. Thanks.

The only easy T's I've seen in this thread were the #1 & #3 videos in the same post with the Anthony Davis dunk. AremRed's play was not a T to me, so any claim that it is an "easy" T is purely subjective.

It seems to me that the exception has largely swallowed the rule. IIRC, in the dark ages, you couldn't hang, period. So you chose whether or not to dunk knowing you couldn't hold the rim as you did it. It seems (and I could be wrong) that greater tolerance and the idea of protecting oneself came with the "snap back" rims designed to protect backboards. (As I recall, the first generation of safety rims just pulled away and had to be manually reset, and the next generation had the snap-back feature.) When the safety rule first came in, it seems to have been pretty limited in what was permitted, but over time more and more was permitted (less clear danger needed to justify and more gymnastics permitted as part of it). From a non-ref perspective, it seems to me the attitude began as "it better be obvious you're protecting yourself and needed to do what you did" or its a T, and has evolved into "hey, it's a safety rule, so unless I'm sure you're showboating or taunting, I'm not gonna question what you need to do to protect yourself if anyone's around."

But maybe that's just a misperception on my part -- I'd be curious what those who have been doing this for eons think.

For whats it worth the opposing team coaches thought it should have been called.

To me when the legs start swinging parallel to the body in this situation, a T is warranted and defensible.

I think your assessment of the evolution of the rule and its enforcement is spot on.

We wouldn't have points of emphasis if rule enforcement didn't tend to evolve. Remember when slapping the backboard was a POI in…2007/2008ish? Lots of Ts called the first couple of years. Players stopped doing it. Now I've noticed they're starting to do it again, and few calls are being made. We all seem quick to say, "I think he might have been trying to block the shot so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt."

Rule evolution is……interesting?


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Play on...that's nothing.

Disagree - I had one almost exactly like this just a couple nights ago. Called a T and the players coach got pissed at the player. He even agreed with me that the player was showboating.