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-   -   What have you learned this year? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100761-what-have-you-learned-year.html)

BigT Wed Jan 27, 2016 04:15pm

What have you learned this year?
 
I have learned to call the obvious and do not let them unsporting behavior of bench personnel get the best of me on my face.

What about you this deep into the HS/college season?

BryanV21 Wed Jan 27, 2016 04:19pm

Ignore the coaches.

If they have a question that they have to have answered they'll get my attention eventually. Otherwise I don't want to hear it, and if I do then I'll tag em.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Smitty Wed Jan 27, 2016 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 978403)
Ignore the coaches.

If they have a question that they have to have answered they'll get my attention eventually. Otherwise I don't want to hear it, and if I do then I'll tag em.

I've learned the opposite - be more approachable to coaches. It has improved my court demeanor significantly. I've found that being more patient and approachable, and even just chatting briefly about the game during dead balls when I'm near the coach has had a very positive affect on my games.

BatteryPowered Wed Jan 27, 2016 05:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 978404)
I've learned the opposite - be more approachable to coaches. It has improved my court demeanor significantly. I've found that being more patient and approachable, and even just chatting briefly about the game during dead balls when I'm near the coach has had a very positive affect on my games.

This

I have, on a few occasions, chatted with a coach. It may be answering a question or it may be just "remembering the olden days". They only last a couple of seconds but it makes you more "human" to them and not just a shirt and whistle.

A good example is a varsity boys game recently. I called a foul on Red 44 and after giving the preliminary call at the spot he said "Yep, got him on the follow through." Apparently the coach heard him and after I reported the foul and get into position as T he asks "Remember when we had to raise our hand when a foul was called?" I chuckled and said "Yep, and I remember getting bird-dogged as well." As he turned he said "The times, they have changed. We're getting old."

Thinking back...darn, he was out of his box...shoulda whacked him. :eek: :p

Just last night in a sub-varsity boys game we had a player getting frustrated. The guy he was charged with covering was only about 4 inches taller and considerable faster. As we were lining up to shoot free-throws I stood next to him and as I "wiped the ball off" on my pants I said to him "Settle down...it's just a basketball game". His teammate on the other side of the lane heard and said "Yea dude...just do the best you can." He was fine after that.

At least for me, talking can...when you pick you spots...go a long way and can keep the game moving.

JRutledge Wed Jan 27, 2016 05:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 978404)
I've learned the opposite - be more approachable to coaches. It has improved my court demeanor significantly. I've found that being more patient and approachable, and even just chatting briefly about the game during dead balls when I'm near the coach has had a very positive affect on my games.

He actually did not say anything about being less approachable. He said to ignore coaches and often coaches are not asking questions, they are making statements or trying to get a response to things that you cannot win on either way.

I also feel being "approachable" means different things to different people. Some officials feel like they have to respond to coaches about everything and that can be very detracting to the ultimate job and that is to call fouls.

If I have learned anything, just walk away when the conversation is not going anywhere. Better to walk away then keep debating something they are not going to see it your way or agree with your explanation.

Peace

deecee Wed Jan 27, 2016 05:34pm

I learned that this is a part time gig, and sometimes coaches/kids/parents react/act like this is our full time job. Do your best but always keep priorities straight. Family-job-refreeing, in that order.

I also learned that I need to lose 15-20 lbs.

BryanV21 Wed Jan 27, 2016 05:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 978408)
He actually did not say anything about being less approachable. He said to ignore coaches and often coaches are not asking questions, they are making statements or trying to get a response to things that you cannot win on either way.

I also feel being "approachable" means different things to different people. Some officials feel like they have to respond to coaches about everything and that can be very detracting to the ultimate job and that is to call fouls.

If I have learned anything, just walk away when the conversation is not going anywhere. Better to walk away then keep debating something they are not going to see it your way or agree with your explanation.

Peace

Perhaps the word "ignore" is a little harsh, but J gets what I'm saying.

I've worked hard this season at managing the coaches, and that oftentimes means ignoring them unless necessary. That doesn't mean their questions or concerns are ignored, it means anything other than a question/concern is ignored. More often than not they're just blowing off steam, and the more I pay attention to such things the more problems I have to deal with.

And when I said they'd eventually get my attention, it means I'm not going to stop or hold up the game to speak with them. What I may do is wait until I'm close to him and free to talk, then I'll say something like "I heard what you were asking before, I just needed to wait until I got a chance to address you... yada, yada, yada". By doing that I'm not only avoiding any type of hold-up to the game, but the coach may get enough time to cool off over a call he may not have agreed with.

RedAndWhiteRef Wed Jan 27, 2016 05:50pm

Definitely agree on the whole "be more approachable to coaches" thing. I used to get bent out of shape when a coach questioned me. Sometimes, they really didn't see what was happening and they're truly just asking. I called a foul once in a tight game and on the way down the court the coach asked me what his player did. I kind of snapped a reply at him and he was like "Whoa, I'm just asking because I didn't see the play!" I felt kinda bad.

I've learned that it's okay to admit you missed a call, whether it's to a coach, player, or your partner. I missed the most obvious travel in VHSL history a few weeks ago, coach was upset. Next dead ball I happened to be right next to him at trail and I just said "Coach, I missed that one." He appreciated it.

JeffM Wed Jan 27, 2016 06:01pm

Remember who was fouled prior to the technical foul
 
Twice, I awared technical fouls to players for reactions to foul calls they disagreed with. After reporting the personal foul and then the technical foul, I could not recall which player was fouled. Fortunately, my partners remembered.

WhistlesAndStripes Wed Jan 27, 2016 06:44pm

I learned not to tell a kid sitting on the bench to shut up, no matter how much he deserves it. Just whack him.

crosscountry55 Wed Jan 27, 2016 07:52pm

I learned…just last night, in fact…to always carry a spare set of contact lenses in my bag.

It turns out soft contact lenses can tear. Who knew?

There were eight eyes on the court last night and I had four of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bas2456 Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:30pm

I've learned how to let plays develop more, which has cut down on some of the unnecessary fouls I've called earlier in my career. I've also learned how to be a better Lead (in two man), getting wider along the end line so that I'm not sprinting out to the corner when the ball is swung that way...I'm already there.

Welpe Thu Jan 28, 2016 01:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 978419)
It turns out soft contact lenses can tear. Who knew?


I did but you didn't ask me. As somebody that has worn them for years, I always make sure to bring extras. I've even managed to blink both of them out of my eyes when I was wrestling in a match back in school. Always carry spares. :)

BigT Thu Jan 28, 2016 08:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 978403)
Ignore the coaches.

If they have a question that they have to have answered they'll get my attention eventually. Otherwise I don't want to hear it, and if I do then I'll tag em.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

My normal personality Bryan is not ignoring people. Trusting people and its thinking people have reasonable expectations. It is kinda making me cynical and wanting to do exactly what you say. Ignore the coaches. Last night BJV his kids struggled on a layup or two and as lead they missed and the defense let them. He is asking me up the court wasnt there a foul. I said NO.

When coaches ask about plays 80 feet away I lose respect. Dont really want to talk to them any more..

BigT Thu Jan 28, 2016 08:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 978404)
I've learned the opposite - be more approachable to coaches. It has improved my court demeanor significantly. I've found that being more patient and approachable, and even just chatting briefly about the game during dead balls when I'm near the coach has had a very positive affect on my games.

Been working on this side too. Sometimes I just dont have the patience for it.

UNIgiantslayers Thu Jan 28, 2016 08:58am

1. Don't make giving a T personal.
2. Shorten up the pregame. Nobody's listening.
3. Never EVER get talked into doing rec league.
4. Always let your partners know if there's a hot mom.

frezer11 Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers (Post 978444)
4. Always let your partners know if there's a hot mom.

Holy crap, you just learned this this year??? Tough break for your partners! :)

UNIgiantslayers Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 978447)
Holy crap, you just learned this this year??? Tough break for your partners! :)

I always work with old guys. I didn't think you guys cared about that stuff anymore.

Raymond Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:09am

I'm positively interacting with players more this year. I'll volunteer to them why I made a call instead of getting irritated when they react.

I've also reigned in my rabbit ears on assistants. If they react to a play but don't address their comments directly to me or my partners, I let it go as long as it's only once or twice in a game. I still address those who make comments directly to me, or who jump up.

Raymond Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers (Post 978444)
...
4. Always let your partners know if there's a hot mom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 978447)
Holy crap, you just learned this this year??? Tough break for your partners! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers (Post 978448)
I always work with old guys. I didn't think you guys cared about that stuff anymore.

Your never stop caring about hot moms. Their age ceiling just rises and they are hot grandmas.

j51969 Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:49am

[QUOTE=BadNewsRef;978450]I'm positively interacting with players more this year. I'll volunteer to them why I made a call instead of getting irritated when they react.

Small things like a moment of levity, complementing a good play, answering a quick question during a lull in the action makes us more human. Coming off stoic, indifferent, and robotic IMO make us look like we don't care about what we are doing.

Smitty Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 978442)
Been working on this side too. Sometimes I just dont have the patience for it.

I hope it didn't need to be said that this was something I was trying to accomplish all the time and in every situation. It was a general statement for me being more approachable than I've been in the past. This is something I've always struggled with - communicating with coaches. I don't tolerate coaches behaving badly, but I will make an attempt, when I see an opening, to try and just listen and communicate more (I'll even initiate conversation) rather than talking at coaches all the time. It's all relative to each situation, and each coach. I've moved around the country a lot and have had to start over in new associations a lot. It takes some time to get used to how things are done in each place and to see coaches enough to get to know their personalities and behaviors. I've been here for 6 years now and finally feel comfortable enough to do this. I'm not making a statement on what others do or should do - this was just my personal response to the OP. It's working for me and has made this season so much more enjoyable than any other since I've been here.

Smitty Thu Jan 28, 2016 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 978450)
I'm positively interacting with players more this year.

This too. I make it a point to try and tell a kid "nice pass" or "nice play" or "great hustle" when it's appropriate. I used to never talk to the kids. And I try and smile more - I had been told I look angry when I'm officiating - that's my focused face, but I can see that I would look angry, so I have made a conscious effort to try and look more relaxed and not have that look.

BryanV21 Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 978456)
This too. I make it a point to try and tell a kid "nice pass" or "nice play" or "great hustle" when it's appropriate. I used to never talk to the kids. And I try and smile more - I had been told I look angry when I'm officiating - that's my focused face, but I can see that I would look angry, so I have made a conscious effort to try and look more relaxed and not have that look.

My nickname used to be "Angry Bird" because I always looked mad when I made calls. I had to learn to relax.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

SD Referee Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 978404)
I've learned the opposite - be more approachable to coaches. It has improved my court demeanor significantly. I've found that being more patient and approachable, and even just chatting briefly about the game during dead balls when I'm near the coach has had a very positive affect on my games.

I agree 100% with that approach. It has worked wonderfully for me. Haven't had to T a coach yet, but I did get a kid recently.

I have learned to let a bad call not get to me. It's over and move on. Don't let it rattle you at all. If the coaches, kids, and crowd can't rattle me why let my own iffy call bother me? Move on and finish the game strong!!!!!!!!

JRutledge Thu Jan 28, 2016 01:07pm

I kind of already knew this, but the more I do this the more I realize it is true.

I learned there is a reason there is a team that only wins one or two times the entire year (at this point of the season). And expect not much out of them as a result.

Peace

BigT Thu Jan 28, 2016 01:20pm

Thanks guys. This has really helped.

OrStBballRef Thu Jan 28, 2016 02:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 978481)
My nickname used to be "Angry Bird" because I always looked mad when I made calls. I had to learn to relax.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

I've had 2-3 officials over the last couple of years tell me this too. These are officials who I listen to and given their feedback it's likely true. That being said it only happens on fouls like an illegal screen, off ball contact etc...

Never on any 'typical' foul on a shot etc...it's only on the off-ball type of calls. Now what it is is me trying to sell the call and that comes off as looking 'angry', but it's just me trying to sell the call and inadvertently looking mad.

I had a game earlier this year where I could watch the replay online I had an illegal screen call. Luckily for me this replay zoomed in on me as I was reporting and (from my standpoint) didn't have the scowl or anything like that just my normal look. So for me I didn't look mad or angry just neutral as usual, which hopefully doesn't look mad :eek:

Camron Rust Thu Jan 28, 2016 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef (Post 978511)
I've had 2-3 officials over the last couple of years tell me this too. These are officials who I listen to and given their feedback it's likely true. That being said it only happens on fouls like an illegal screen, off ball contact etc...

Never on any 'typical' foul on a shot etc...it's only on the off-ball type of calls. Now what it is is me trying to sell the call and that comes off as looking 'angry', but it's just me trying to sell the call and inadvertently looking mad.

I had a game earlier this year where I could watch the replay online I had an illegal screen call. Luckily for me this replay zoomed in on me as I was reporting and (from my standpoint) didn't have the scowl or anything like that just my normal look. So for me I didn't look mad or angry just neutral as usual, which hopefully doesn't look mad :eek:

I have not observed that with you. If you have done it, it is minor compared to some I've seen that look like they want to kill you.

OrStBballRef Thu Jan 28, 2016 03:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 978526)
I have not observed that with you. If you have done it, it is minor compared to some I've seen that look like they want to kill you.

Yeah it's something I've been trying to work on, especially the last 1.5 years. Feel like I'm getting there but something always to work on.

Even that coach in our game a few weeks back that earned a T didn't get the 'angry' reaction/look either....Mainly cause I didn't need to sell the T as everyone in the gym knew he crossed the line...

Raymond Thu Jan 28, 2016 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef (Post 978533)
Yeah it's something I've been trying to work on, especially the last 1.5 years. Feel like I'm getting there but something always to work on.

Even that coach in our game a few weeks back that earned a T didn't get the 'angry' reaction/look either....Mainly cause I didn't need to sell the T as everyone in the gym knew he crossed the line...

You should never have to sell a T. Whack and move.

Freddy Thu Jan 28, 2016 04:15pm

Thus far this season, I have learned . . .
1) How not to have that "Watergate Moment", when the "tape is erased for minutes at a time" during a game -- when it seems the game is in control of me instead of me in control of myself during the entire game. Getting much better at 48 minutes of undivided focus and attention instead of one or two minutes somewhere inbetween that go by like an unconscious blur.
2) To verbally count down to myself from about thirty seconds to go on the clock so that I don't lose an opportunity to adjudicate a last second shot, if necessary.
3) How to get even more out of video review and self-assessment and how to effectively teach that to others.
4) That the NFHS needs to run all changes past the contributors of this Forum before printing or publicizing any rule changes, rulebook revisions, POE's, or Interpretations.

OrStBballRef Thu Jan 28, 2016 04:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 978536)
You should never have to sell a T. Whack and move.

Agree on the never having to sell a T....

Probably a bad use of words on my part...in years past I would tend to have a visible annoyed reaction when I would give out the T. It would be pretty clear coach got under my skin when I blew my whistle and gave the signal...

I've been a lot better with the whack and move without any kind of visible reaction on my part...

Raymond Thu Jan 28, 2016 04:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef (Post 978538)
Agree on the never having to sell a T....

Probably a bad use of words on my part...in years past I would tend to have a visible annoyed reaction when I would give out the T. It would be pretty clear coach got under my skin when I blew my whistle and gave the signal...

I've been a lot better with the whack and move without any kind of visible reaction on my part...

I think I always have an annoyed face when I call a T, but I'm very low key in how I assess it. By the time folks realize I have a T I'm already with a partner discussing the administration and resumption of play.

BillyMac Thu Jan 28, 2016 05:50pm

Good Evening ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 978481)
My nickname used to be "Angry Bird"

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M68...=0&w=300&h=300

Camron Rust Thu Jan 28, 2016 08:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef (Post 978533)
Yeah it's something I've been trying to work on, especially the last 1.5 years. Feel like I'm getting there but something always to work on.

Even that coach in our game a few weeks back that earned a T didn't get the 'angry' reaction/look either....Mainly cause I didn't need to sell the T as everyone in the gym knew he crossed the line...

Even the official scorer? ;)

bainsey Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:54pm

I learned today not to take shortcuts to your car down small muddy hills. They tend to cause you to fall, strain your quad, put you on crutches, and turn back assignments.

Cole4088 Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:01am

Well, this is my first year I've learned everything I can. My main focuses right now to get better are as followed:
- Stop ball watching when stuff in my area is pretty dull. (I've been doing varsity more but mainly two man) I tend to anticipate a dribble coming into my area and watch the ball for it to happen
- Posture/Stand tall I'm 6'4" and have been known to not stand as tall as possible.
- Always work for a better view of my area. I use to get to my spot and stand idle. I've been getting better at this.
- Not be so robotic. I used to do everything by book. Been told by local guys to not 'go off book' but add my own little trademarks on certain stuff. Example: the way you pop out and call a block or offensive.

BigT Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 978570)
I learned today not to take shortcuts to your car down small muddy hills. They tend to cause you to fall, strain your quad, put you on crutches, and turn back assignments.

Get back soon!

BigT Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:37pm

Does anyone have a T process where you go over and say something like coach this is our last chat since we have a T. Is there anything you want to discuss while my partner takes care of the T? Can only 20 year vets get away with this when having white hair, etc.

jTheUmp Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 978659)
Does anyone have a T process where you go over and say something like coach this is our last chat since we have a T. Is there anything you want to discuss while my partner takes care of the T? Can only 20 year vets get away with this when having white hair, etc.

No.

If the coach has lost her coaching-box privileges as a result of the T (especially in the case of the coache's unsporting behavior), and they're still standing/talking after a short cooling-off period, I, as the non-T-calling official will address it with a "Coach, by rule, you can no longer use the coaching box for the remainder of the game". If she tries to bring up ANYTHING to do with any calls during the game, I'm simply going to say "we're past the point of talking about any calls, please sit down." And then I'm going to walk away.

If the coach loses the coaching box due to some indirect technical, I might give her a little leeway, but she's not getting much.

Raymond Fri Jan 29, 2016 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 978659)
Does anyone have a T process where you go over and say something like coach this is our last chat since we have a T. Is there anything you want to discuss while my partner takes care of the T? Can only 20 year vets get away with this when having white hair, etc.

I personally won't comment on the coach standing until those free throws are complete (just something I do, don't expect anyone else to do the same or agree with it). But I do not engage coaches in conversations after my partner has T'd them.

VaTerp Fri Jan 29, 2016 02:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 978659)
Does anyone have a T process where you go over and say something like coach this is our last chat since we have a T. Is there anything you want to discuss while my partner takes care of the T? Can only 20 year vets get away with this when having white hair, etc.

I can think of several reasons why this is a really bad idea but not a single reason why this would be a good idea.

JRutledge Fri Jan 29, 2016 03:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 978659)
Does anyone have a T process where you go over and say something like coach this is our last chat since we have a T. Is there anything you want to discuss while my partner takes care of the T? Can only 20 year vets get away with this when having white hair, etc.

The only thing I will say to a coach after a T is that they might want to sit down. And that is only after they are not making it clear they understand the rule. Otherwise I have no desire to ever talk to a coach after a T.

I told the coach the other night when he wanted to talk to me and I told him "no" his answer to that was "why?" Then I told him, "I want to keep you in the game" and we moved on from there and did not talk the rest of the game.

I do have some grey, but not white hair, but nothing gets in my way. Not sure what you mean by this, but OK.

Peace


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