Charge Or Block (Video)
 

Would you call this a charge or a block?

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From that angle, looks like the defender hip checked and I would have had a block. Not her side of the lane but did C have a better angle as well?

The defender is not legal at the time of contact so there must have been an elbow or other contact initiated with the arm of the offensive player.

Impossible to know from the camera angle but that's my guess based on the call and the way the defender fell.

BTW- I do not like that mechanic on the prelim. I like to see some indication that we are going the other way. But that's just me.

The camera angle was a lot better of an angle than calling a foul in the paint from the backcourt.

I have a block...turned sideways and stepped into the dribbler as the dribbler went around her. There is nothing the trail could have possibly seen from where he was for that to have been a player control foul.

Disagree. He's not in the backcourt and the contact occurs at the FT line. To say that he is calling something in the paint from the backcourt is embellishing, just a bit.

And his angle on the court is better than that of the camera to get a look between the players and see if there was any displacement from the arm of the offensive player. So he definitely could have seen something that led him to the PC call.

Now, absent any displacement with the arm its an obvious blocking foul.

Block or maybe nothing.

I agree with everything here. This is a block.

OK, you're right, he comes into the frontcourt after the contact just in time to blow the whistle....and, ok, it was at the FT line. Last time I checked, the FT line was considered in the paint.

Either way, he is way too far from that play to be credible. It wasn't like those players were gazelles. I would have expected him to be well into the frontcourt before contact with the pace those players were going, not just as he blows the whistle from over 30 feet away.

I agree that he should be closer to the play and there is no reason for him to still be hanging out at halfcourt, especially in this game.

But he still could have had a look at the offensive players off arm. That's the ONLY thing he could be seeing that could make this a PC. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

The fact that he made this call, the video leaving open the possibility and lack of reaction from the bench and players has me thinking there had to be something there. Otherwise its an egregious missed call.

Definitely a block and ideally the lead should have made that call. The trail is too far away, which is presumably why he kicked the call.


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I'm inclined to say "nothing," though if there was a call it would be on the defense because the BH/D's RSBQ was slightly affected. At any rate, PC isn't on the menu for me on this play.

I think there's no way to say if he's credible or not. He probably has a way better view than we do.

I can't even think of a reason to call a block on this play, ever, from this angle. Offense got by just fine and the defense magically falls over.

It's very likely that this is either a flop or the trail saw the offensive player do something with her right arm that we can't see. I'll give the calling official the benefit of the doubt since he probably has a better angle than we do.

looks like should have been a no call. The T making that call would be the last guy that should have had a whistle. And for the record he was in the backcourt when he blew the whistle.

If he sees between the players he could very well have the best view.

Even if he sees between the players this wasn't one of those game-changing, crew-saving calls to help a C and T who had brain lock. It's minimal contact that's 30 feet away from him in someone else's primary. Leave that alone.

I don't see how you can have a no-call here. Either the dribbler knocked over the defender, or the defender came forward or into the dribbler's path. I'm usually all for holding a whistle while a dribbler drives the lane, but that contact is too much to let go.

I'm sure this is a Roman Law thing, but I actually have a bigger problem with the mechanics than the ruling. Here, the fist has to be up first.

I can see a no call here but in a game with this low skill level that amount of contact can be disadvantageous and it appears to be an obvious block in the context of the thread title.

We can all agree that the T's positioning and mechanics leave a lot to be desired but I disagree with those that say this isnt his primary. He should be much closer to the play but its the entire play is in his primary and its the T's play all the way.

And again, I'm guessing/hoping that there is some contact with the ball-handler's off arm. Otherwise, it is not just a missed call. Its a mind- boggling, horrific call that I would not expect from even the least experienced and/or worst sub-varsity officials I see.

I'm going with the likelihood that there was some contact we couldnt see from the camera angle over the likelihood that this was one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

It is only his primary if he is in the right position to have assumed coverage of his that area. Until he is in the frontcourt, that is area largely the responsibility of the L or C (whoever is in the frontcourt).

This doesn't have anything to do with a crew-saving call, whatever that is. The calling official likely saw something that needed a whistle. Unless an official is known for being awful, I'm going to assume there was a good reason for the whistle.

I go with block. His credibility is not that high just because of the black band on his wrist

Easy no call, the contact didn't give the dribble and advantage/disadvantage and the white player that collapsed is just standard operating procedure in a HS girls game (at least from what I remember). I mean who falls that way, she crumpled up.

I'd give this to the C -- semi-transition, right near the top of the key (a step inside). Problem is, she slows to a stop WELL BEFORE the FT line extended and isn't engaged at all.

Can't think of a single reason why she wouldn't run to the FTLE and then stop, really.

The ball is coming up the floor slowly. No reason the T or the C should be so far behind the play.

I see no evidence of a push off. Dribbler right hand goes to gather.

Defender falls/sits like a chair is pulled out which is a pretty good indicator of a flop.

No call or block. If the trail was truly engaged and had the best angle, then he missed the carry, first.

That's not a carry.

Who makes a PC foul without turning toward the team being awarded?

"Play on"

I agree with you.

I don't think I have anything on this play. Certainly isn't a PC.

Girls fall down all the time. I can't tell if there was any contact from this angle. If there was, it looks like a block. If there was minimal or no contact, then no call.

Yes, girls fall down all of the time and this looks like one of them. I don't know this official so all I know if I was looking at this game with an official I was mentoring the first thing I would say is that you are too far away to see that call. At best he is at the division line when he makes the call. Allow the C to get that play. Trust her judgement since the play is coming to her. Also for you to call a PC foul on A1, did she go "to and through" B2? My answer here would be no. Incidental contact on this play for me.

He saw it or he didn't. Oh, how many times I've heard this and the person saying it is wrong because the call was right

What on earth is to and through? Sounds like a weird definition of how to call a PC. You have no idea what the calling official had. Maybe a cheap shot with an elbow. Our view on this play is complete garbage and looks like a no-call. Who knows what he saw.

Sadly I do believe that the farther one is from the point of the call the greater the likelihood for getting it wrong.

I don't disagree -- harder to get the *right* angle and the odds of bodies being in the way is higher.

Of course you can be too close, too.

I have a block. But I am inclined to think this is a two man crew and the L is late getting back into position. It should have her call, whether she was the C or L.

No chance that this is a 2-person crew.

You may be right, The dribbler started in the T PCA so him making the call is not unheard of, but it looks like the C had the better look. She was much closer to the action.

I only say that because there'd be no reason for the C to stop where she did if there were only 2 officials.

I completely agree, but that should go through every official's mind when making calls. There are still calls I can make from 60 feet away.

Some people forget how to do 2-man!

Closer doesn't = a better look. I'll take a better angle any day.

I'm not sure why people keep talking about this as if its even a block/charge situation worthy of discussion. Forget "to and through", the first question we should be asking in block/charge situations is "was the defender legal."

On this play the defender is clearly not legal so if there is a call to be made here, its clearly a block from the angle we have on the video.

But the T here, despite being horribly out of position, still has a better look between the players than the camera angle we have. And if there was a quick elbow by the dribbler he could have seen it. People are also talking about how awkwardly the defender fell. Which could be typical bad girls basketball or could be the result of an elbow from the offensive player.

Again, if there isnt something that we cant see on camera then this is one of the worst PC calls of all time. I understand that people are questioning the calling official b/c of his positioning, mechanics, and even the black band on his wrist.

But given the choice between there being something here we cant see and this being one of the worst PC calls of all time, I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say there was probably something there we didn't see.

I find it a little odd that on this forum where we generall try to give some the benefit of the doubt to the calling official in these videos, people are so willing to think that he made what IMO would have to be one of the worst PC calls in recent memory.

Well said, except....

Oh I've seen some PC calls that would make you recant:D

I've seen some really bad ones as well so you're probably right.

But absent something with the off hand this one would rank up there.

I am not going to argue about a definition on how to call a player control foul that you may not have heard. A definition I have heard in many pre-games and I have also used in many. If I told you I heard it from both Kenny (During a talk we had he lives near me) and Tommy Mauer (In a camp I attended) would it still be weird? And I disagree with you about our view on this play is complete garbage. If this video was me at the trail making this call I would still disagree with it. That's all I have to say.

"To and through" *used to be* a good guideline. I *think* that it's been cahnged so the "through" part isn't really required. It's more like "to and into the vertical space with enough contact to basue an advantage" -- but that isn't as mnemonic.

Looked like maybe a carry first, but hard to tell. I'm not sure how the official got a placer control foul unless he saw something from his angle that we can't from the video (like a right hand/forarm pushing off). It should be a block from the angle we have (although from the angle we have in the video, I probably pass and let my partner(s) take it).

I can't believe we've discussed this play so much when it's coming from a poster who I'm pretty sure just wants us to confirm that officials miss calls against his daughter.

Yes, and I would've called out either of them to explain it to me. Taken literally it's doing no good for me, so I'm guessing I just don't get it.