Timeout!!
 

Rule: 4-12-4 reads while the ball remains live a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless a try or tap for goal. 4-15-4-c says a timeout shall not be granted during an interrupted dribble. 4-21 says a fumble is an accidental loss of player control when ball unintentionally drops or slips from players grasp.

So, please help me understand a bit better for my own betterment. A1 passes to A2 who muffs the pass. Loose ball batted around. A coach yells timeout. By rule, A still in team control and can be granted? Or does the team control statement noted above exist only for team control fouls etc? Do we have to have player control in order to grant a timeout?

No. A live ball must be in player control (or at a team's disposal for a FT or throwin) for the team to be granted a timeout.

Thank you sir.
So, the team control statement I mentioned only related to fouls?

It relates to what team is in control of the ball in case the whistle blows for any reason.

Not at all, but team control is not sufficient for a TO request to be granted.

This Is Another Job For ...
 

... The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules:

The head coach may request, and be granted, a timeout if his, or her, player is holding, or dribbling, the ball; or during a dead ball period. A player saving the ball in the air can ask for, and be granted, a timeout even if that player is going out of bounds. The key is whether, or not, the player has control of the ball.

5-8-3-a is the rule reference you're looking for.

Thanks welpe and everyone. I was trying to throw too many rules references into something very simple.

What about when the coach requests timeout before a jump ball is called?
 

SITUATION: A1 has control of the ball. B1 places hands on the ball and they begin to struggle to get the ball with neither player having an advantage. Coach A requests a timeout before the official calls a jump ball. Should the official grant the timeout of call a jump ball?

I work with a lot of guys who pre-game to be patience about granting time-outs in those situations.

My rule of thumb is if their player has initial possession and the call a timeout within a fraction of a second of the opposing player also obtaining posession, I will le the coach burn a time out. It could potentially save some rough play. It has to be very clear that the first player had sole player control. Otherwise I let them continue until a held ball is warranted. Maybe others have a better discription, ruling or understanding of this rule.

Is there such a thing as not "sole" player control? Is "sole" player control required to grant a TO?

If the conditions for a held ball were met first, call that. If the conditions for a TO were met first, call that.

Coach's request came after the ball was tied up.

Call the held ball and ask the coach if he still wants his TO.

Here's an actual play I had last year, to illustrate. I'm the T, tableside.

*A-1 releases a pass to A-2 in the BC. While the ball is in flight, HC A requests a time-out. Nothing granted.

*A-2 catches the ball at the division line and makes a long pass to A-3. While the ball is in flight, HC A requests another time-out. Nothing granted.

*A-3 catches the ball near the end line, right corner. HC A says, "Now I want..." and a shot is released.... "a time out."

*Swish for three.

I'm the new L. HC A and I make eye contact, and exchange a smile and headshake. My reply, "I didn't think you wanted one."

Why wasn't the timeout granted when A2 caught the ball?

See NFHS 5.8.3D.

And?

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

5.8.3 SITUATION D: A1 or A2 requests a time-out: (a) while airborne A1 is
holding the ball; (b) while A1’s throw-in is in flight toward A2; or (c) when the ball
is on the floor at A1’s disposal for a throw-in. RULING: The request is granted in
(a) and (c), but denied in (b), as there is no player control while the ball is loose
between players.

Timeout ...
 

Because the request wasn't made when A2 caught the ball, it was made while the ball was in flight, which was denied (not granted) by the official. The request of timeout that's denied doesn't carryover over until the next opportunity to grant such a request. It takes a new request, when A2 catches the ball, which can then be granted by the official.

"If he makes this shot I'd like a TO ref." I'm not telling him to ask me again after a made shot.

I do like your explanation, kind of... my issue is the coach was asking multiple times. My question was to Bainsey's post and not the OP. I wanted a clear answer why he didn't give a TO when A2 had the ball and all I got was a rule that didn't tell me anything about what happened. I can see a coach asking for a TO on an interrupted dribble situation where he's praying an official kicks the rule to stop a potential steal. Yeah, of course I'm not even paying attention to the request. On the other hand, if A1 and A2 are by themselves in the BC and the coach says he'd like a TO but it's during a pass then I'm waiting for A2 to catch the ball and giving it to him.

If the coach keeps asking for a TO I'm not going to ignore him because it was a split second before a player caught the ball.

Can't Request A Time Out During A Live Ball Unless ...
 

I am. "Coach, I'll be sure to listen for you to yell time out when you want it."

I'm sure that many will disagree, but that's the way I roll, and I haven't had a coach complain about it in thirty-five years.

5-8-3: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out,
such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured player(s),
or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a substitute(s) is
available and required.

What If ...
 

What if it's a half of a second? A full second? Two seconds? Five seconds? What if the pass is ever so slightly deflected by a defender, but is still caught by A2? What if A2 fumbles the catch and it rolls around on the floor for a "split second"?

5-8-3: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual request for a time-out,
such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured player(s),
or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a substitute(s) is
available and required.

I'm not disagreeing and maybe your method is better than mine, but I've never mucked up a TO at any level -- I'm sure I will now though. There are just some situations I think it's a judgement call.

B1 shoots and scores. All B players run back on defense. A1 passes the ball in to A2 and the closest B player is 50 feet away. If the coach says TO then turns around to pickup his clipboard or starting talking with his bench, I have no problem giving him the TO when A2 gets the ball.

Granted, not requested is how I understand it. Hence, personally, I'm okay with a coach saying, "If he makes this FT I want a TO."

Different ...
 

Not better. Not worse. Just different.

Who am I to judge? (Pope Francis)

I've done this. Now, however, when a coach tells me this, I try to always take a look at them and make sure they still want it.

Specific guidance in NCAAW to have the coach ask again after the FT. It is what I've used at all levels.

Due diligence. I agree.

Have you ever had problems doing it this way?

no problems.

Depending on how well I know the coach, and maybe how much time I have, I might say something like, "remind me then, just in case I forget"

I usually respond with, "I'll be watching, ask me again after he makes it."

To be clear: If the timeout is called before a Held Ball is called. Grant the TO?
If the Held Ball is Ruled first then check with coach to see if they still want TO?

If you wait 2.5 years to cal the held ball, it is too late

:eek:

GR8