Over and back (backcourt) on back tap
 

Team A missed shot
Team A back taps the ball it bounces around the 3p line heading towards division line.
Team A player attempts to grab ball near division line (hands of stone) never controls it and ball goes into backcourt.
Team A then recovers ball in backcourt.

Violation or not?

When asked at halftime I said no because they never established team control after the try. Veteran Official who works state level games called the violation.

I agree with you.

On top of agreeing with him you are both correct.

Had a similar play last night. I was Slot opposite, ball got stolen and subsequently touched by the same team in their front court and back court but without control established. Trail blew a violation but looked kinda unsure. I saw the play and came over and offered information that I didn't think there was control in the FC to start. We fixed it but the coach who would have benefited was pissed, railed on me how we should have gone to the arrow since we "disagreed".

The way I was taught......would you have granted a timeout to the team? If the answer is no, then you would not have a backcourt violation.

Rules references:

Rule: 4-12-3
ART. 3
Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.
----------------------------
Rules reference:
Rule: 9-9-1
ART. 1
A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.

Maybe he judged control.

Or, else he kicked it.

This thinking isn't going to work in all scenarios.

Was there control in the BC, or was it from a throw-in?

Not a violation despite the fact that half the gym and one coach will go nuts.

Who asked you at halftime? Were you working the game with the state tournament official or just watching?

Do you live in VA?

So a missed dunk that clangs off the rim remains as team control? Similar play as above in the Iowa State-Texas game on January 12 where a missed dunk saw ball go into back court without any player securing possession. The team that missed the dunk was first to touch in backcourt and a violation was called.

No.

Either you described it wrong, the officials judged it not a dunk "try", or they kicked it.

I had a play last night where the rebound was loose and bouncing toward the backcourt. The offensive team went after it and one player touched it with a hand (not a dribble) and finally established control in the backcourt. No whistle from me. The other team's coach couldn't believe I didn't call it, but then took a look at the scoreboard and backed off (his team was up like 25 in the last two minutes). I didn't even need to use the explanation I had planned for him.

This Is A Job For ...
 

... The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules:

During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt, or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations.

No, but it's a great way to consider whether player control had ever been established.

Sure, but it's wrong and if someone follows it they won't call some BC violations.

Explain?

I can think of some examples in college (where a TO can't be granted to a player going OOB or into the BC), but I can't think of any off the top of my head for HS.

A player doesn't have to be holding or dribbling the ball for a BC violation.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the action in the front court as the ball was being touched by players - whether to determine whether player control was ever established. That would determine what might happen once the ball is touched in the backcourt.

At some point that had to have happened.

This makes a lot more sense if it's what he meant.

Thanks.

Yes, he is referring to the action in the FC. Was there PC in the FC. One test of PC is would you grant a TO while the player in question was in contact with the ball.

In order to have a BC violation, player control has to be have been established at some point (either in the FC or the BC) so that TC gets established. The "would you call a timeout" guideline only helps determine if there was, at any point, player control. If one is still missing BC violations after that, it's strictly because one does not know the BC rule.

That is what I meant. My apologies.

When a ball is getting batted around after a shot or a throw in, I think to myself: would I grant a timeout in this situation? If the answer is yes, then I may have the possibility of a backcourt violation. If not, then play on.

No and no.

So I had this very play happen to me this week. I was lead in two man and my P called a backcourt violation. I was sure he got it wrong. I just let it be, in this instance as none of the coaches knew that he kicked it. So out of curiosity, I asked the 3 man varsity crew after our game what a partner should do in ths situation. 1 said let them live and die with their call. 1 said if they ask for help offer it, if not, let it be. Cant remember what the third said, maybe go with the inadvertent whistle and give the ball back to the proper team.

So I pose the same question to all of you. How do you help in this situation. I think we have talked about in the past the difference between kicking a rule and making a bad call on bad judgement. I think I should have approached my P with that information and let them change their call if they wanted to. Ready, go.