New Wisconsin Rule
 

Wondering if officials in Wisconsin have received any directives on these new "sportsmanship" rules.

Jimmy Carlton's Blogs: WIAA rules seek to curb student chants such as "air ball" and "scoreboard"

Please have this foolishness stay in Wisconsin.

Peace

Cheers to that.

Seems like this state is doing as it wishes.
Do you have a problem with that? ;):eek:

Nope, I have no issues with what they are doing, just keep that mess up there. But you probably do not know they border our state. They can do what they want as I do not have a license. See I do not brow beat what other states should do because it is not in the rulebook. BTW, this is not a playing rule, but an administrative action. States have been doing that for years. ;)

Peace

Do you really think that I don't know US geography?
I've driven from Chicago to Madison.

And if you did would that somehow change the situation and not allow them to do this? You are silly.

Yep, it is administrative not a playing rule such as what type of foul gets assessed during a game. Now what was the situation in the other thread?...hmmm

The point of my comment is I hope the IHSA or NF does not think this is a good idea. Maybe if they want to encourage those to not use certain terms, but please do not put this on the officials. I am not you, I do not care what other states do with their rules or officials. I do not have to work there.

Peace

I was hoping to hear from Wisconsin officials. Rich, you're an official and an assignor up there...have you heard anything from the state?

New Wisconsin Rule
 

Nope. The tweet/suspension was the first I heard of any of this. This has nothing to do with my role as an official.

I will say this. If the state is saying that this kind of thing by students is not acceptable then maybe the line needs to be redrawn for the adults in the stands and the coaches on the bench, too.

When I was in HS (a few centuries ago) and an opponent was going to shoot a FT, we would chant:

SEE THAT BASKET
SEE THAT BALL
C'MON STUPID
HIT THE WALL

Pretty much all the boys from our school would chant this at home games but not on the road. We realized we were outnumbered on the road so we didn't want to deal with the ticked-off other kids.

To me this should be a directive to game management. If I hear the crowd yelling, "start the bus up" I am going to assume they are letting the bus drivers know the game is about over and in Wisconsin, you want to get on a warm bus in January.

Ain't that the truth!! There were a couple mornings it was -40 with wind chill when I lived in Wisconsin. And that wasn't even up north.

Even if a directive is sent to game management, how reasonable is their chance to successfully handle a crowd of students??


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This is to be expected when mommies are running things and their babies get hurt feelings during a game.
Do any of you know a dad in America that cares about such nonsense?

Let's just say that if my daughter posted a tweet like the one that started this whole thing that her relationship with social media would change until she was no longer living in my house.

I also want to mention that there is nothing new about these directions. The WIAA has sent out a sportsmanship reminder like this to schools' athletic directors since the late 1990s.

Because one school sent the memo to a student-athlete who then decided to post the memo on Twitter along with encouragement for the WIAA to consume bovine excrement -- that's why it's getting all this press. And why the player got suspended.

For me, it's the language, I have to admit. And I'm someone who isn't all that wound up about people using swear words in general. But saying "EAT SH-T WIAA" in a tweet is over the top. I couldn't get away with saying that and wouldn't want to. And yet that tweet is still up, days later. Perhaps if there was even a shred of remorse on the part of the player (she gave a sorry-but-not-sorry apology and left the tweet up) none of this would've been blown out of proportion by *everyone.*

We got a rope. We got a tree. All we need is a referee.

Virginia could institute the same regulations and it wouldn't affect me as an official.

One of terms they want to eliminate is "sieve." I know what the term means, can picture my grandpa yelling "This damn thing is leaking like a sieve!" in response to a crappy radiator they had. But not sure I get this one, I don't know if I'm too old to understand why this is a relevant term to chant, or perhaps too young. Anyone know what they'd be chanting that in response to?

Hockey
 

Said to the opponent's goalie

What a joke!!!!! Just another step in the wussification process that is sweeping this country.

Are kids and their parents so soft that when they get called out by a student section their fragile egos are affected for life?

I hope the kids ignore this and keep the chants alive!

Ah ha! Thank you

This!!!

Now...if they wanted to pass such an rule/guideline to stop girls from yelling "BALL...BALL...BALL...BALL..." all the time around here I am behind them 100%. I often want to say "Yep...a big orange one." to them when they start.

I had a mom stand up in stands last night and yell at the student section. Home mangmt went to student section and had them all move to end of gym nearest their bench , it was the home teams fans. This was a JH boys game. And the kids were just being kids, nothing unsporting etc. I thought it very silly. This mom was probably 40 and she couldn't take it? Very very silly.


I wish I had a cool signature

Yup yup yup, to all of the above.

After they get all the teachers, coaches and fans to be positive - we're next.



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Why was this even sent to the Student-Athletes? The WIAA changes are way over the top.As long as nothing said is personal or derogatory why do we care? The suspension is warranted in my mind for the language used in the tweet.If she wanted to say the WIAA changes are stupid/ridiculous that's fine but she's gotta learn profane tweets have consequences.

Back in the day when opposing cheerleaders took the floor we'd chant
1,2,3,4 get the cattle off the floor and start mooing at them....

Good clean harmless fun......:D

You honestly think that was harmless?

That's disgusting.

absolutely not-At my school we would put a stop to that-home or away.

I have the same reaction to things like "sieve" or "A rope, a tree, ..." It's directed to a specific person and is intended to be demeaning (or even a threat). It has no place in high school sports.

"Start the bus up.", "Scoreboard", "C'mon stupid, hit the wall" - those don't bother me in nearly the same way. Although the last one does call a specific player stupid, so I may have to rethink that one.

Some of that stuff is fine for heckling adult baseball players ("sieve" in particular). I really don't have much of a problem with "sieve", it's at least performance related.

The cheerleader heckling, though, bothers me as a parent (teenage daughter)more than anything.

I remember one of the guys on my high school basketball team "moo'd" at the cheerleaders (at a pep rally no less) and the whole team got to run extra in the next practice.

Good grief. Even as a a-hole teenager I didn't chant crap like that.

Only because you weren't smart enough to think of it? :D:rolleyes::p

I swear this is true, College of Wooster girls volleyball team had C.O.W on the leg of their shorts. 1981 but still seemed wrong! They were not tiny girls mostly.

So you have a problem with a group of kids calling a goalie a "sieve"? When you are letting a lot of goals get past you, you are indeed a "sieve".

I don't know where some of you soft wimps come from, but it seems like your kind is taking over the world. We can't say anything that even one person might interpret as demeaning. You pick on a kid for one second and you are a bully guilty of bullying. There are already plenty of leagues/sports for youth that don't keep score because Little Johnny or Little Sally might get beat and have their ego ruined for life.

People in this world need to relax, grow a thicker skin, and learn to ignore other people. I'm so tired of the "offended" crowd screaming to get their way.

Believe me when I say that I've never been part of the "offended" crowd. I'd never suggest to turn off the scoreboard.

Calling an NHL goalkeeper a sieve is one thing. Saying that to a 14-year-old in a high school setting is simply not appropriate. The NFHS and every one of its member organizations tell us to teach/preach sportsmanship to our youth. This is not good sportsmanship.

Kids are going to sometimes cross the line. That is what adults are for. That is what teachers and administrators are for. And if you think kids will not call a big girl in their mind names from the cheerleading squad, we are even more naive. I agree it is not appropriate, but this outrage is funny. Kids when I was coming up said a lot worse and then some. But we knew that if we said those things out loud we would likely get in trouble.

All I hope is that we do not have to police this when half of the things said we will not really be paying attention to or understand. There are jokes between schools that it takes awhile for someone not at those schools to understand. Let the AD and Principal deal with this stuff. Keep us out of it please.

Peace

This, I agree with. It's the job of the site/school administrators to take care of this. Not the contest officials.

Related matter:
Last week, Women's Varsity game, the background music during warm-ups, which is often played sooo loud, was Rap music, and one of the songs had the "N" word, and other things, as a part of the lyrics. This was at a Charter school, and the principal was there, and was the announcer.
I mentioned to the principal that he/they need to be more aware of the music content . . . he had no idea what was being said in the lyrics! He seemed surprised that I brought it to his attention!
Whether it's the student section, an individual, or the music, there are limits to propriety.

Kids do that stuff to each other in life, in athletics, in study hall. I honestly don't think this stuff bothers 99% of kids. It's the 1% and the wimpy parents that get all bent out of shape about it.

If we are going to teach sportsmanship and make it a priority, lets start at the college and pro level. Tons of trash talking and rubbing it in the face of your opponent. I don't mind at all, but if we are worried about ridding sports of that stuff, let's start there. Kids see it on TV and think that is the way to go about it.

So how do they handle the passive-aggressive type chant that takes sports ribbing in stride?

I speak, of course, of the student-body riposte at some well-to-do schools that takes place when their teams are getting waxed: "That's all right, that's OK, you're going to work for us some day!"

Unsporting?

My youngest played in one of those leagues (Upward). He has Asperger's and is not mentally focused enough to participate in competitive sports.

I guess the existence of my son and that league offends an accomplished athlete and official such as yourself.

I know one thing -- it's much easier to put people in certain "buckets" based on responses to threads like these.

Plenty of studies having to do with this subject. Had you said 1% you would've been closer.

Interesting, while at time silly discussion, which (as all such discussions seem to) devolves into reductio ad absurdum.

To me what is appropriate varies dramatically by level. I see little connection between what is appropriate at a high caliber varsity game (young men and women) and at a junior high game (boys and girls) or a 5th grade game (young boys and girls). And I agree (absent unique circumstances that actually disrupt what is happening on the court) they should not be a referee issue, but game management/school officials. (I know in my high school many moons ago, an administrator was always responsible, home or away, at varsity games to make sure we didn't go too far -- and I have seen the same thing in games I have watched now.)

Wisconsin is probably a unique circumstance.

We aren't talking about in life or in study hall. We aren't talking about sportsmanship at the college or pro level. The WIAA represents interscholastic athletics in Wisconsin. That's who they are concerned about, and rightfully so.

I do agree with this statement, but I also hope that they put this in the hands of the administrators of the particular schools.

This to me could all be done without making it public in a news article.

Peace

And that's exactly what they do. The policy is non-binding and they leave it to the member schools to enforce. The school sent its athletes some of the WIAA's information. An athlete got upset about it and told the WIAA where to go with it. The school suspended her.

There is nothing to see here.

But it makes good fodder for Daily Internet Outrage.

My goodness.

The original was an email sent to ADs.

An AD mistakenly forwarded it to student athletes.

The student athlete posted it on Twitter along with profanity.

It was never *intended* to be public.

Did I say that I was offended or that leagues that cater to individuals like your son shouldn't exist? Oh, I didn't? Glad we got that straightened out.

I was speaking in general about sports leagues, leagues that don't cater to individuals like your son, that don't keep score because they don't want winners and losers. Life has winners and losers and I believe in teaching that right away.

Upward is fine for you and your son and it has its place. I just don't agree with telling our children that everybody wins and that everybody is equal in a regular sports league.

So you believe that some innocent chants being done by students are having long term negative effects on kids?

I'm not talking about the ones that go over the line and refer to somebody as fat or some other physical features. I'm talking about calling somebody a "sieve" or other good natured chants.

Not at all during sporting events. You brought life and study hall into it and I wasn't sure why. I've never heard a chant ever that made me think for a second that an AD needed to deal with it.

In fact, the worst chants I've heard were directed at officials and they just made me laugh.

And where in this thread, or the story from Wisconsin, did anybody suggest such a perspective? You made an asinine stereotype of leagues such as Upward, the participants, and their parents when those leagues have nothing to do with this story.

And this upsets you?

Peace

You posted that it was made public in a news article. I explained that it wasn't.

Officials have nothing to do with what was sent out nor in the enforcement of anything.

For the record, I'm fine with the suspension.

It was made public in the news article.

I also was asking if they would have the officials involved in this, never said that is what the article said. And I was hoping that this issue never came to us in Illinois in this manner. Well if they only keep this with the administrators, but someone is going to get the bright idea and put us in this situation.

And if you mean the kid responding, that is a separate issue. I never even commented about that situation. I think you need to take that fight up with someone else.

Peace

Guys - do you think this rule is also intended to cover signs held by fans at the games? Sometimes signs can be somewhat offensive. Of course, sometimes they can be funny. I remember years ago I was watching a UCLA - USC game on television and a UCLA fan in the gym was holding up a sign that said, "FLUSH USED TROJANS". When they showed in on TV, even the announcers were laughing.

Jay Bilas royally trolls Wisconsin’s decision to ban chants at high school games | USA Today High School Sports | USA Today High School Sports

I like some of Jay's new chants. Maybe this thread can be steered in this direction

That was my point exactly!!!!!!!

Unless somebody is mooing at cheerleaders or threatening somebody, the chants that are done at games are harmless in my opinion. They are not bad sportsmanship. It is just a bunch of kids being kids and having some fun. It's the PC crowd trying to take over again and I think it's a non issue..........most of the time.

Thanks for the discussion!

Not once did I specifically mention Upward or anything like it. This discussion went from supposedly unsportsmanlike chants to the PC crowd to not keeping score, etc. etc. Lots of different things touched on in this discussion.

Somewhere along the line, the topic of not keeping score came up. I commented on it as I don't believe in that. Somebody else that has a son that participates in Upward got bent out of shape and put words in my mouth.

Lighten up!

I quoted exactly what you posted. You're the one ranting and foaming at the mouth about the wussification of America or whatever.

You need to lighten up Francis. If you can't handle the responses to your juvenile proclamations then maybe you need to worry about the wussification happening in your mirror.

Like.

I'm not the one that mentioned the Upward league. Somebody else did. That person took what I was saying and applied it to the Upward league. I was talking about sports and life in general. Not a specific league.

Youre broad statement was definitely in the ballpark of Upward and leagues like it.

You got caught making a jackass post and now you're attempting, albeit horribly, to back-peddle. If you want people to stop being "wimpy" at the very least don't wimp out with comments like, "Lighten up!"

Keep it on topic, fellas.

At the risk of getting off topic AGAIN, I didn't bring up Upward until a dad brought it up. Once it was brought up, I agreed that those leagues have their place. I said that REGULAR sports leagues are not keeping scores and having winners and losers. Reading comprehension!!!!!

I'm not back peddling as I didn't say anything wrong or degrade a particular league or player. Sorry to offend anybody as that was not my intention.

Now back to officiating discussion.

Really? Altor posted this:

Your response was this:

That bolded part refers to leagues like Upward, which I (not somebody) brought up. I can see why you don't call T's on coaches since you do not have the integrity to acknowledge what said that is right here in black and white.

The Wisconsin issue has nothing to do with non-scholastic leagues that don't keep score or care who wins. You just felt the need to be a jerk and lump it all in together.