Sub T or Team T?
 

Between first and second quarters. First warning horn has sounded. V-6 checks in at the table, and is advised he must wait until the clock has started in the second quarter until being allowed into the game.

Second warning horn has sounded. Both teams are still huddling. R sets the ball down and starts counting. Both teams' players run onto the court, plus V-6, who is on the court when the throw-in is completed.

Technical foul on V-6 or the V team (for six on the court)?

Team technical
 

[QUOTE=bainsey;973590]Between first and second quarters. First warning horn has sounded. V-6 checks in at the table, and is advised he must wait until the clock has started in the second quarter until being allowed into the game.

Second warning horn has sounded. Both teams are still huddling. R sets the ball down and starts counting. Both teams' players run onto the court, plus V-6, who is on the court when the throw-in is completed.

Technical foul on V-6 or the V team (for six on the court)?[/QUOTE


I think you would go with the team tech. 10-2-2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICALsays a sub shall not enter the court without being beckoned EXCEPT between quarters and during timeouts. So it should be a team tech for six on the court.

[QUOTE=billyu2;973594]Possibly followed closely be a unsportsmanlike on the sub, the coach or both when they pitch their fit...even though they were wrong. :p

Are these incidents like a POE this year or what? Since when has subbing between quarters been such an issue or paid attention to?

Usually at TO's this does come up from time to time when a sub checks in after the warning horn but I don't think tables really "pay" that much attention during the game if a player doesn't check in.

In any case this would be a team T for 10-1-6 or possible 10-1-9.

10-2 would only apply before the ball becomes live.

[QUOTE=billyu2;973594]The section you have cited assumes the player has reported before the warning horn. He then doesn't have to be beckoned. When he is late he has to be beckoned at next opportunity. Also, the official put the ball on the floor. That is "at disposal" and ball is live. Quarter starts then even though clock hasn't run.

I watch the subs like a hawk on timeouts.If they're at the X before the timeout I'll say twice "Subs are in on the timeout,Subs are in on the timeout." Reminds me that I have subs that were there at the timeout being granted.If subs come and check in during the timeout I'll just say go ahead.Had two varsity officials about 2 weeks ago let subs in who had checked in at the 2nd horn :mad: :mad:

What do you do if no one checks in but subs go in the game? Do you KNOW the 5 that came off the floor and the new 5 that are coming on the floor? Are you able to catch this before the ball goes live?

[QUOTE=BigCat;973600]Yep, I thought of that as well but too late. On the other hand, 4-34-3: if entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. So, are we now back to six players on the court? Team tech?

[QUOTE=billyu2;973608]You only have 6 on the court IF THERE IS 6 on the court.

[QUOTE=billyu2;973608]Billy, I'm not sure how you got my name above your quote...above :confused:


If a substitute runs onto the floor during a live ball without being beckoned you have until the ball becomes live after first dead ball to penalize for not being beckoned. There's a case play in rule 10. In this Op the ball was live when the player ran in. Technically, if you catch it before the time limit and you know which player came in it is a sub tech. If you don't know which player ran in you have the team tech for 6 on floor.

You let subs in if they check in after the first horn?

If you see the kid come in from the table without being beckoned, it's a player T (a sub T actually). If you don't, and you end up with six on the court, it's a team T.

Substitutions between quarters was a POE a couple of seasons ago.

I'm going to challenge you to provide the case play giving your stated time frame to catch a substitute coming onto the court.

10.2.2. It's out of thin air but it is there....

NOT REPORTING-NOT BEING BECKONED

10.2.2
During a live ball, and with the clock running, Substitute A6 enters the Court.RULING A technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball.

Thanks, I had this confused with 10.1.6 (b).

If a sub doesn't check in at the table and just comes in the game how the heck would I know. Unless the coach sends in a completely different 5 and I noticed no one went to the table I have no clue. I also have no idea who checks in between quarters, ESPECIALLY if the just walk onto the court at part of the 5 players.

IOW I don't track who is in and who is out. In most cases I notice when a player goes out to keep track of when they can come back in, but even then that is not 100% of the time. We cannot keep track of everything.

But if a player goes to check in AFTER the warning horn then he/she isn't coming in the game, if I notice this. The smart thing would be to not even check in and just enter. 99 out of 100 times no one will be the wiser.

I've always thought this too. I'm not about to go out and advertise it, but I know in virtually all my games, this probably wouldn't get caught.

So what are you doing during the time out? Here most games are 2 man mechanics, so the administrating official is at the half court line. It's extremely easy to watch the table during the timeout. Your going to know if someone tried to check in after the first horn, even with 3 man mechanics this can be done. I will agree that if they just come in straight from the bench to floor, it would be much harder to recognize.

I would suggest you go back and read all my posts.

Nobody has commented on this part of the post, but are we sure this is right?

Isn't the "clock properly starting" component only relevant when a player is subbed out of the game? In this case, he simply reported after the warning horn. If the period starts without the clock running, can't we then beckon the sub in at the next dead ball?

[QUOTE=BigCat;973600]Scrapper. See above. He has to wait until next opportunity. Clock doesn't have to start. That wasn't the q in the OP. He said the player was advised he had to wait....He very well could have been told that by someone. Wrongly....

The quarter has to start. The clock doesn't.