Assistant coach went after my partner today
 

Here's the situation:
4th quarter of a 2 pt. game. Team A is leading by 2. My partner gets a common foul on Team B in the back court - under one minute. Head coach (great all game), does a little dance and runs to his seat. Assistant coach (JV coach and a terrible one) also jumps up to dance after the call. Partner goes over and warns: "coach I suggest you get your bench under control".
Head coach: seems embarrassed and nods in agreement...
Assistant coach says: "We're not talking to you" in a contemptuous tone.
Partner: Whack!
I totally agree with the call - though as the L, I couldn't hear what the assistant coach said.
Team B goes on to lose by 8.
Buzzer to end game sounds and this assistant goes after my partner before we leave the court and follows us into the hallway. The game management person is nowhere to be found...
Eventually this ___ coach gets under control - my partner gets into the dressing room. I go back into the almost empty gym - get the scores for both teams back in there: whack and eject the assistant. In our state, he can't sit on the bench for the next varsity game...
What say you!

The moment you guys stepped into the hall you left visual confines of court. Your jurisdiction ended accept for clerical matters. Issues that arose and you addressed while you had jurisdiction. If you were going to toss him you should have done it before you left floor.

I agree - I left the visual confines only because my partner was being chased and I didn't want him to get attacked.
It just escalated quickly and before I knew it - we were in the hallway.
I knew my going back was a risk, but I felt this was completely unacceptable behavior by that assistant.
I should add that the official was younger and only in his first year as a varsity official.
I really felt concerned for his safety - getting him to the locker room was #1 priority.
2nd priority: sticking that ___!


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You can't go back into the gym and whack once you've left. The best course would have been to just email your state/assigner. Let them know not only what the assistant did, but that security/game management was nowhere to be found. In my area, the assistant would likely be suspended as though he'd been ejected, and the host school would be getting a call/reprimand/fine from the state office the next morning.

+1. Ejections, though they can be used as evidence to support subsequent suspensions by school/state authorities, are really not about that vis-à-vis their administration by game officials. To an official, technicals and ejections are necessary actions to take for the betterment of that particular game. In this case, game was over, any penalty would not have affected the outcome of the game, and besides, as has been discussed, jurisdiction had ended.

Separate from calling the game, there would have been nothing wrong with you reporting the unacceptable actions of the assistant to your assignor and/or the state office. In fact, that is to be encouraged in this case. Let those folks worry about suspensions and post-game discipline; that is not our function as officials.

A supervisor is going to have a hard time defending you when you simply ignore/make up rules.

While I don't disagree that the behavior was unacceptable, this was not the right way to go about dealing with it. An email to the appropriate party is all that was necessary.

And GM/security should be monitoring the officials all the way to their locker room and their cars. I know a school in my area that got a big-time fine from the SCHSL for having inadequate postgame security for the crew.

I would not blame an official for ejecting a coach if he still had jurisdiction. The official in the OP did not (with the exception of filling out clerical reports). Hard to defend an official who makes shit up.

I gave a head coach a technical while leaving the court several years ago. He got beat and decided to cheap shot me as I ran by his bench on the way out. We have to write up all unsportsmanlike technicals to the state and the school has to respond to them, so I knew it would get addressed in some fashion even if it didn't have anything to do with the outcome of the game.

Ah but does the ejection occur when the official recognizes it or when the official blows his whistle and enforces it?? :D

Had a similar situation a few years ago. I took the time to go back to the table and report a single, flagrant technical. That assured he was out for the next game, which I later learned was senior night. I hate coaches that think that just because the game is over they get a free shot at us as we leave the court. This guy came hard enough that he obviously wanted a response. He got one.


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Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

2-2-4: The jurisdiction of the officials is terminated and the final score has
been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.
NOTE: The officials retain clerical authority over the contest through the completion of
any reports, including those imposing disqualifications, which are responsive to actions
occurring while the officials had jurisdiction. State associations may intercede in the
event of unusual incidents after the officials’ jurisdiction has ended or in the event that a
contest is terminated prior to the conclusion of regulation play.

2.2.4 SITUATION A: The score is Team A-62 and Team B-61 when the horn
sounds to end the fourth quarter. Prior to the referee’s approval of the final score,
the coach of Team A directs obscene gestures at the officials. RULING: A technical
foul is charged and the result of the free throws will determine which team
wins or whether an extra period is required. (5-6-2 Exception 4; 10-4-1c)

2.2.4 SITUATION B: Time expires to end the game with a score of 64-61.
Immediately following the signal to end the fourth quarter, the officials are moving
off the court toward a door to their dressing room. The referee enters the door
and is in the hallway to the locker room, but the umpire is still in the court area
when he/she notices the scorer frantically trying to get the officials' attention due
to a possible scorebook error. RULING: Since one of the officials has not left the
visual confines of the playing area, the game jurisdiction has not ended. The officials
may work with scorer's table personnel to rectify any errors.

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the
fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult
for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful
goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does
not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of
the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to
the officials’ dressing room. RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled
the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials
leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no
change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate
with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding
scoring or timing has been resolved.

Had an association meeting tonight.
The overwhelming consensus was that getting my young partner to safety immediately... was the best course of action. Since the coaches' act began on the court and safety was the only reason I left, the group felt that going back, especially since I hadn't reach the dressing room, and whacking that _____ assistant coach was something they stand behind.

As long as that makes you feel better....

I don't feel better - just embarrassed for the coach & school; and saddened for the kids and fans that witnessed this level of disrespect toward someone in a uniform.
Nothing for me to "feel better" about.

You state does not have a procedure to report a coach for any unsportsmanlike conduct that takes place outside of the game? That is the case where I live, so if we had to write up a coach, the state can deal with the accordingly. But you cannot give a T after you have left the visual confines of the court. No rules support at all, but that is what others have said. But I would think you can report events that could happen for example in the parking lot if a coach confronted you, like what happened in my area about a week ago with a coach punching an official.

Peace

This is stuff I would include in my report to my assignor/state. I still wouldn't go out to the court to report the T cause you're not supported by rule...and when it comes to ejections and possible suspensions, I want to be supported by rule.

I would hope that the sanctioning body would take all the facts into account included in a report and...in this scenario...adjudicate the proper punishment, just as if an official was able to stay on the court to assess a post game T.

Don't make it personal. I realize how hard that is and every official struggles with it but T's and ejections are not personal. Dick Bevetta had a great interview on game day several years ago talking about just this issue. Many officials are viewed as making it personal and it reflects badly on everyone. Going back onto floor was not supported by rule or a good idea bc if you were concerned about safety, going back to the place that wasn't safe just was not a good idea. And coming to the board and admitting you wanted to make sure he did not get to be on bench next game makes it personal. And continuing to add the space before coach, where I assume we are to enter our own negative vulgar adjective about him, makes it personal.

Deal with the stuff we have to and write the report after.


I wish I had a cool signature

Billy's citations touched on this, but actually, the game isn't over until we leave the confines of the court. If others understood this, perhaps they wouldn't see their shots as free.

Assistant coach went after my partner today
 

Exactly. When my situation occurred, we were still walking off the court, which is why I went to the table to report the flagrant technical.


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Buzzer to end game sounds and this assistant goes after my partner before we leave the court and follows us into the hallway.

These two statement do not seem to agree.

I left the visual confines only because my partner was being chased and I didn't want him to get attacked.
It just escalated quickly and before I knew it - we were in the hallway.

I disagree. The technical foul was earned for activity that occurred before he left. Leaving for a moment to ensure the safety of your partner doesn't change that fact.

Either way, a full report to the state will give them the chance to rescind the technical foul on a technicality if they so choose.

Why did you go back on the floor in the first place? Game was over, you left the court, get to the LR and be done with it (at least for now) Did you go back just to issue the T and eject? Were the scorekeepers even still there?

IMO, once they left the gym, the right to report a technical foul to the scorer was terminated.

Yes, an email to the state would be all that was necessary and it's likely, at least in my state, that the coach would have been punished as if he had been ejected, anyway.

I think it's dangerous and short sighted to go back.

I also don't think it's supported by rule although I'm less bothered by that part. :)

This topic reminded me of a situation/question I meant to ask this board about. Saturday, BV. Assistant coach makes a comment about a call I made, so I whack him. HC was not pleased with me. Was I too quick on this? My line of thinking is that I'll listen to a comment or two from HC, but definitely not from an assistant. How would you guys handle this?

Depending on the nature of the comment, I'll sometimes give a HC ONE chance to get his ASSistant coach in order, but I have very low tolerance for ASSistants and their comments.

I'd rather you give out too many T's early in your career. You can be dialed back by a good mentor or supervisor.

Had an assistant scream at a partner last night. When my partner looked towards the bench to see who it was, the guy yelled at him again.

Whack.

When the HC started arguing the technical instead of roping in his assistant and wouldn't let an official get a word in edgewise, he got one too. I had to stop the administering of the initial 2 free throws to add 2 more.

"It's 8 on 5 out there tonight."

Whack. No chance I'm passing on that one. Nor would I want to. Nor should any official.

Maybe I missed it somewhere else in the thread. It seems mute going back in to record a T in this situation. If this guy’s behavior made any of you feel unsafe; I report this no matter what. Whether it’s through a local association, or reported via your states officials’ department website. I can't believe that this is tolerated at any level, and would be addressed by the powers that be (before leaving court or in a hallway). How they discipline such behavior is up to them regardless if you T him or not. I would assume any ejection has a reporting process. IMO If the individual in question is this much of an A-hole going back may only escalate the situation.

It's kind of unfortunate that NO ONE in your association knows the relevant rules here.

Consider a very slightly modified version ... say the asst's team won by one point. You decide to usher off your partner to safety, then go back. Teams are gone - and you issue your technical foul.

If it is legal for you to issue this technical foul... B GETS SHOTS, and could change the result of the game.

Your issuance of the T was improper... no matter how many uneducated officials you find to agree with you.

I somewhat agree but I also don't. In the case where the officials feel threatened, suspend the game and let the authorities deal with what to do. Would I stay in a gym where I felt threatened? @#$@ NO.

I also would not have gone back in but just filed my report with my assignor, and anyone else that needs to be notified.

Sounds like you completely agree. He shouldn't have gone back out there. it was improper and inappropriate (and possibly dangerous).

Moot. It seems moot.

Sorry, one of my weird pet peeves. :D

I disagree that the T was improper. We don't have to shoot the shots, the game is suspended and the folks that make the big bucks can determine what to do from there.

The game was not suspended ... the game was over and the officials were headed to the locker room. Issuing a T after the officials have left the visual confines of the court is improper. By rule.

The T was earned before they left. They left because they thought it was unsafe. One returned to mark the T in the book. That's the step I would have left out, and just considered it suspended.

Jurisdiction is fundamental. When you have it, you have the authority/power to act. When you dont have it, you have no authority/power to act. There's no middle ground. If your state follows the concept of jurisdiction they will say that attempting to eject him after you left the visual confines is invalid. Hopefully, and likely, he will be suspended anyway. It just wont be automatic for an ejection. If safety was a concern you did the right thing going off with your partner.

Put the safety reasons in your report.

Then the official should've issued it on the way off the floor.

What's the "I'm running off the floor because @#$@ is hitting the fan while issuing a T" mechanic/protocol?

JRutledge what on earth happened?

HA!

Maybe I should have stayed mute. Sometimes working, answering the phone, and typing don't mix. Or maybe it's just moot..........;)

+1

I believe JRUT and myself are both from IL. We have two reports on the IHSA website under the officials link we can file. The special report is a link you can file such a incident. The other is SAWA (sport a winning attitude) report. I am sure most states have something similar.

An official after a lower level game was confronted in the parking lot and punched. The coach was given a T during the game and claimed after he was arrested that the officials bumped him on the way out the school (after the game of course). Then the coach followed the individual and punched the official in the confrontation. The home school (not the school the coach belonged to) insisted that he file a police report.

The official also filed a "Special Report" and that is where some of the "coach's story" came from. And it appears not many saw it the way of the coach.

This is what I am talking about should have been dealt with in this situation if there is a formal process to get a report filed. I would hope that would be the case as our report is also a legal document of any incident that might involve a crime.

Peace

Is it then possible to force a premature end to a game by chasing the officials from the gym?

I think the rules were written with the assumption that the officials leave the gym voluntarily.

As a practical matter though, I agree with those saying file a report with the state. Don't risk your safety to reenter the gym, regardless of whether there's rule support for it or not.

:eek:

A few things for the record:
1. I never felt my safety was at risk while he was being an idiot on the court or in the hallway.
2. I didn't want him to take a swing at my partner, and I was unsure of how any of us would have responded if he had... I also was unsure of how the gathering crowd might respond.
3. I failed to mention: We were in an auxiliary gym with two access points (main gym had a broken goal). The access point to the gym became quickly flooded by the four of us, people trying to subdue him, players and even fans. We had to get things moving... quickly!
4. I agree that going back is incorrect... Why go back? I wanted it recorded.
5. My association knows the rules! They're support is because they know who I am and are open to this being viewed by the state as an unusual situation.
6. If the state decides this was an unusual incident after my jurisdiction ended, they can honor the T/ejection. However, I think we all would agree that the school should handle business here - no need for the state to get involved.
7. If the state invalidates the T/ejection - I have no problem. However, I'm not going to erase it now and I will be more aware in the future.
Finally: I'm not sure how blowing the whistle and giving this guy a T at the end of the buzzer while he's charging would have played out... but it seems like its whack and run or just run.

Thanks for all the input men - extremely helpful!