Shoot the Bonus?
 

White on offense commits a foul by displacing the defensive player away from the ball. This is the 7th team foul on white. Does Blue shoot the bonus?

No, Offensive Foul. Team Control

A member since Feb 2007?

I was bewildered last week to see bonus shot on an offensive foul in my son's HS JV game. I started by thinking, wow, that rule changed a *long* time ago . . . then it dawned on me it wasn't just an offensive foul, it was a player control foul. As far as I know, that was never a bonus opportunity . . . some of these JV games are quite an adventure (and others are quite well officiated, quite a spectrum). . .

How are officials still screwing this up at the JV level?

Cause they're JV Officials. :D

The same way officials at all levels screw it up. They do not slow it down and do not think through the rule.

Many people only think of a TC foul as something that happens during an illegal screen and do not think much more than that situation.

Peace

How about if an illegal screen happens on a throw in? Do you shoot the bonus then?

Nope, team control also exists when a team has control of the ball for a throw-in.*

*For fouls only, not backcourt violations.

Beginners here work JV games. Depends where you live, I guess.

Makes sense. Usually don't get JV here until 3rd year. 2nd if you're good/they like you.

We do not have those kind of restrictions at all. Anyone can work any level of high school if they are assigned it and certainly not a restriction for the most part for any lower level games. Those might be the only officials available for that game.

I have also noticed on this site what we call JV, you might call something else.

Peace

Probably, and a lot more would make sense. I've never considered Freshman/C squad/etc to be JV.

I never said JV was Freshman ball. I said that what some call JV is what most places in the Chicagoland area is sophomore. Where I started JV referred to the game before the varsity in many cases, because the schools were so small those were the only kids that they could get to play the prelim games. In the Chicagoland area the JV team is usually the bench varsity players or players that were not good enough to sit on the bench regularly of the varsity team but might play other levels like the freshman or the sophomore teams.

The bottom line, anything lower than varsity could have anyone working those games. There are some assignors that have some criteria for what officials work, but that is their choice. I worked a JV game (before the varsity game) as my first high school game 20 years ago in December.

So in this case, it is possible this is a first year official or officials that made this ruling if it took place in the right part of my state. Usually that is not going to be the preferred assigning make-up, but is can happen just that way.

Peace

Our JV is actually JV in the state to the north. For most schools, it's the level right below varsity.

Anything other than varsity is usually hired by the schools here. And what they get as far as officials go runs the gamut. Leagues only assign varsity contests here. Officials associations usually don't assign games.

That all sounds like personalized classifications that only mean something really to the schools.

They play sophomore games here before the varsity. Those are the kids that will become varsity players in the next year if they stay on the program and progress. JV is usually played on Saturday mornings where a few of the varsity bench players and sometimes a sophomore team player or two might play as well to get more playing time or playing time with better players. Freshman teams will just have freshman teams and often have an A and a B team depending on the size of the school. All those games are typically assigned by the assignor of the conference. Schools or ADs do not want to be bothered with that duty so they give it to the assignor. It is not unusual to get some of the same people to work that level in a conference if they live in the area as the games often are earlier in the night than varsity games.

And with the big schools, they can play 2 freshman games in a field house or auxiliary gym, one sophomore in the main gym before the varsity all in the same night. I have worked one of the freshman games as a fill in before a varsity game in an emergency because someone could not show up at the last minute. But usually that means 7 officials are needed for a single night of basketball in conference for sure in many conferences in this area.

Peace

Yup. Same thing as you have in Illinois. Classifications that only mean something in your area.

*wow, that is quite a 'fast-track'! Beginners here get 8th grade boys and girls games; maybe a freshman game in late Jan/February.

Around here, as I understand it (though some may be league specific), we have Varsity and JV, and many schools have Freshman. Varsity is, well, varsity. Freshman, kinda self explanatory. JV is pretty competitive and schools handle differently. Some schools limit to sophomores and freshman (with, perhaps, an occasional special case for a junior) on the theory that if you haven't made varsity by junior year, it just ain't gonna happen. Others have a handful of juniors. I'm pretty sure the rule is that players can't go down levels in the same season -- you can come up from JV to V, but if you do, you're done playing with JV (and same for Frosh/JV). As best I can tell (I'm a Dad not a hoops ref), JV and frosh get a two-man team and varsity get a three-man crew.

Yup. I had this situation Saturday. Ruled a TC foul, reported it, and went to the end line to administer the throw in. The table buzzed me, and the scorekeeper signaled 1-and-1. "No," I replied. "Team control."

Blood Rule???
 

A one point game late in the 3rd quarter. A1 is fouled by B1 and goes to the line to shoot 2 Free throws. Before the foul shots blood is seen on A1 jersey and B1 has a bloody lip.

We decided to give time to get jersey changed for A1 and B1 to get his lip taken care of. This did not take a lot of time. Now, I realize the rule states that players must leave the floor for Blood, and can be brought back in the game with a timeout. But since both players were key players on each team we decided to handle it in a different way and let them stay without the charged timeout. Neither team was gaining an advantage or disadvantage based on the rule as we saw it.

Was this bad game management since we disregarded the rule, or was this appropriate based on the situation? OK fellas, let me have it!

Does your association do all the assigning for all levels? If that is the case, then maybe that is the big difference. Where I am we are independent contractors, no one dictates what you work and no all assigning is tied to each other to prevent someone from giving you a game they wish. Not to say that where Rich is things are exactly the same, but they are more similar than it appears where you live.

Peace

What other rules did you decide to ignore during this game?
Did you allow illegal headbands? Did you call traveling? Did you let each team have twelve seconds to advance the ball to the frontcourt?
See my point?
Why would you set aside a clearly written rule? If the teams wanted to have those players remain in the game at that point, then they needed to use a timeout, otherwise just get subs in for them. What's the big deal?

When I was in high school in Southeast WI in the late 90s, we used the much sexier term, "Varsity Reserve" for this. Do they still call it that anywhere?

Subvarsity ...
 

Pretty simple here in Connecticut. If one is good enough to play varsity, they play varsity. If not, and they're not a freshman, they play junior varsity. If not, and they are a freshman, they play on the freshman team.

Some prep schools use fancier names for subvarsity games: seconds, thirds.

I'm glad it is simple here. Varsity, JV, and middle school. That's it, 3 levels of public school ball. 8th graders in middle school are allowed to moved up to their future HS's JV team.

Private schools have V, JV, JJV.

This really depends on regional issues. In some areas, JV is entry level. In others, it takes time to get even to that level.

Better question, how can someone who has been posting since Feb 2007 not know the rule?

Coach :D

Sorry I am 17 and just starting to learn the many rules of NFHS basketball. This is one that I needed clarification on. I think I have all the other 7673 rules down pat as I know the rest of you veteran officials do. I simply used my late father's log in and password to obtain much needed information. I really appreciate the assistance. The 2007 date has little if anything to relate to my question or answer.

I only have 7660 rules down pat, I have trouble with the other 13.

I like to use the term "sub varsity" for anything that isn't a varsity contest.

I usually say anything that is not varsity "lower level." But if I am assigned a game or observing an official we often refer to the actual level like "freshman B game."

Peace

I'm sorry to hear your father passed away. Let us know if there is anything else we can help you with!

I do not give a damn! :D

Didn't ask and certainly do not give a damn if you did. ;)

Peace

Really? We have officials out there that don't know this? I know this is my first post, but I felt compelled as it says you have been a member since 2007 and you still don't know this?

Where I'm from, you can jump right in and do varsity contests in year one if somebody wants you to do it.

Read the entire thread before posting dude. The kid explained all of this within the thread


I wish I had a cool signature

Yes I feel quite bad if that is true. Should read the whole thing before posting. Not sure I believe it, but if it's true then I have sympathy for the kid. I will gladly help answer any of his future questions.

Happy to be here and join in on the conversations!