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-   -   You're Driving Me Crazy (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100479-youre-driving-me-crazy.html)

Adam Thu Dec 10, 2015 02:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDorian37 (Post 972397)
Hard to imagine a scenario in which a throw-in hits the leg/foot of a player defending the throw-in and we don't have a kick violation. Maybe if the thrower is trying a bounce pass between the defender's legs? Or maybe the thrower intentionally throws the ball at the defender's foot/leg thinking that will earn a shot clock reset?
Happens a lot. The kick has to be intentional. If the thrower intentionally hits the defender's leg, it could well be nothing.

Nevadaref Thu Dec 10, 2015 02:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDorian37 (Post 972391)
All resets are full.

The shot clock rules are the same as in NCAA except for a kick/striking with fist violation against the defense. In NCAA after such a violation the shot clock is reset to 15 if it is under 15 (and otherwise not reset). In HS a kick/strike is a full reset.
Actually, the CA shot clock rules are a simplified version of the NCAA shot clock rules. There are many differences. One of them being that there are no partial resets. A few years ago the CIF produced an entire document (about 8 pages) covering the CA rules modifications and giving several example play rulings for various shot clock situations.

Valley Man Thu Dec 10, 2015 02:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAREF (Post 972398)
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The "swirl" isn't a signal for ANYTHING.
The swirl was the technique that George was trying to use from Jerry in the Seinfeld Episode wasn't it?

j51969 Thu Dec 10, 2015 02:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 972393)
Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Shot clock reset is finger pointing up and then swirled. NY state resets to 15 below 15 and when I was in California (4 years ago) it was full reset at all times.

On a FT violation where the ball doesn't make contact the rim I usually point to the rim. I may swirl the finger, I don't know, but who cares. If my partner brings THIS up to me I would literally laugh in his/her face. Some mechanics may not be by the book but are used to convey information to the coaches and players.

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.
+1

It also sounds like you were working 2-man. Either your state does that for varsity or you were working a sub-varsity contests. If you are getting a partner that is competent and is working hard on the court what else can you ask for? Not for nothin' but it makes you sound like an a$$.

Kansas Ref Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 972386)
He was wrong.

So were you.

(Local instructions to the contrary.)
*thank you bob jenkin, when we meet up in Jan I will tell him that our errors 'cancelled each other out' and he don't owe me a pie.

Raymond Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatteryPowered (Post 972403)
Maybe its just me...but if this was the most egregious error made by your partner in the entire game you had one hell of a partner and probably had a good game.
If he is doing that I'd assume there is some other stuff he does wrong also. I definitely wouldn't assume it's only error he made.

Kansas Ref Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 972393)
Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Shot clock reset is finger pointing up and then swirled. NY state resets to 15 below 15 and when I was in California (4 years ago) it was full reset at all times.

On a FT violation where the ball doesn't make contact the rim I usually point to the rim. I may swirl the finger, I don't know, but who cares. If my partner brings THIS up to me I would literally laugh in his/her face. Some mechanics may not be by the book but are used to convey information to the coaches and players.

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.
*But can you please explain why you are doing "finger swirls" to begin with if you know this is incorrect signaling? And, furthermore, what "information is being conveyed" if no one knows what it means. Although, I gather from the gestalt that this "finger swirl" action has become so ingrained in officiating signaling that it has acquired an "attributed meaning" as opposed to a "certified meaning".

Kansas Ref Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 972409)
+1

It also sounds like you were working 2-man. Either your state does that for varsity or you were working a sub-varsity contests. If you are getting a partner that is competent and is working hard on the court what else can you ask for? Not for nothin' but it makes you sound like an a$$.
*But who cares if they are laughed at in their face or not? That is irrelevant--the issue is signals--not how we might be touchy feely about being corrected.

j51969 Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 972418)
*But who cares if they are laughed at in their face or not? That is irrelevant--the issue is signals--not how we might be touchy feely about being corrected.
Fair enough. It just seems like picking a nit IMO. If he's stuggling in general I would focus on mechcanics that upset the flow and balance of the game. Like....proper location of out of bounds, effectively communitcating shooting or out of bounds, identifying the shooter, primary and secondary areas of coverage, and so on...

so cal lurker Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 972393)
The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.
You must be wrong. I saw that lurking-bear signal just this week in a JV game. :eek: (And it confirmed some of what I was thinking about the level of officials we had drawn that day . . . )

j51969 Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 972424)
You must be wrong. I saw that lurking-bear signal just this week in a JV game. :eek: (And it confirmed some of what I was thinking about the level of officials we had drawn that day . . . )
What is this?

deecee Thu Dec 10, 2015 03:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 972425)
What is this?
kinda like this

https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/im...EeKo4luYy1kYfw

jpgc99 Thu Dec 10, 2015 04:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 972426)
That's an NCAA-M mechanic for walking under / undercutting the shooter with the body while keeping the hands up.

The finger twirl is the ncaa mechanic for resetting the shot clock.

deecee Thu Dec 10, 2015 04:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 972427)
That's an NCAA-M mechanic for walking under / undercutting the shooter with the body while keeping the hands up.

The finger twirl is the ncaa mechanic for resetting the shot clock.
The NCAA mechanic is actually dislodging with the lower body NOT undercutting the shooter (it could be used for rebounding as well or even possible post play).

You have 2 finger twirl signals (3 actually if you count abbreviated TO for subs) like I said one pointing up and one pointing down over the other hand making an O.

deecee Thu Dec 10, 2015 04:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 972417)
*But can you please explain why you are doing "finger swirls" to begin with if you know this is incorrect signaling? And, furthermore, what "information is being conveyed" if no one knows what it means. Although, I gather from the gestalt that this "finger swirl" action has become so ingrained in officiating signaling that it has acquired an "attributed meaning" as opposed to a "certified meaning".
It's more like a point to the rim to signal what/where the violation was, and I can't remember if I swirl or not. I'm leaning towards sometimes. I think it adds emphasis that I really, really, really saw the violation. :D


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