DQ mess up
 

Foul called on Blue 3. Double bonus. After white 4 makes the first free throw, R tells blue coach that was his fifth foul. Coach argues that the free throw can't count because he was entitled to 30 seconds to replace the player who fouled out before the free throw was taken, and therefore it needs to be retaken.

I'm guessing that, not withstanding the lawyer's, er, coach's creativity, that since the coach was not informed it was the 5th foul that the 30 second period never started and the FT stands -- but curious what the actual answer is. (I couldn't hear the dialogue between the ref and the coach, but that is what I inferred was the answer given by the R.)

Oh, By The Way, Red 23 Had His Fifth Foul Four Minutes Ago ...
 

A live ball went in the basket so the free throw counts.

A player is not disqualified until the coach is informed that the player is disqualified.

4-14-2: A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel
when the coach is notified by an official.

A player could, technically, if the table screws up, not be disqualified and keep playing with six, or possibly seven, personal fouls. Said player could even score some points, possibly with some free throws. In fact, said player could make the first of two free throws and then it's discovered that he fouled out, and a substitute would take the second free throw, with the first one still being counted.

2-11-Note 2: The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul continues to play
because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer
discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the
ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be
removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such player was
illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the
procedure to be followed is included among the duties of the officials.

See also 4.14.1c. And d.

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

4.14.1 SITUATION C: A1 is fouled by B2 and is awarded two free throws. The
foul is B2's fifth foul. The new trail official reports the fifth foul to Team B's coach.
Before a substitute is made, the lead official incorrectly permits A1 to attempt the
first free throw. The officials realize the error and huddle to discuss the situation.
RULING: The result of the first attempt shall stand. Team B's head coach shall be
notified of B2's disqualification. Once B2 has been replaced, A1 shall attempt the
second free throw. COMMENT: This is an official's error and not a correctable
error situation according to Rule 2-10. (6-1-2c; 10-5-2; 2-8-3)

A player is not DQ'd until the coach is informed of this. That means he can get a 6th, 7th, 8th, you get the idea foul.

Also, at least in NY state, its a 20 second timer with a warning horn after 5 seconds to get that sub in. It's not a TO and bench better stay on the bench and the sub better get in on time other wise the penalty is a direct T on the HC.

We don't cancel and action and you would then resume play from the POI which would be the second FT.

I can only guess that there may be 2 more FT's after the second with this coach.

20 seconds. He gets 20 seconds.

What Happened To The Mid Court Hash Mark ???
 

I hate it when they change rules and don't remind me about the change every year thereafter.

Coach, you get twenty seconds. And it starts now.

Timer, start the clock.

To the coach: That's 5.

To the timer: Go.

(If the timer doesn't hit the horn at 5 seconds, I'm telling him to give me one, too.)

Just out of curiosity has anyone ever teched a coach for slow playing this substitution? Had a coach that was trying to be cute the other night and the thought crossed my mind.

Yes. If a coach wants to spend the entire 20 seconds staring me down or arguing the call, s/he gets no leeway on the time.

What this guy said.

Twice in the last 15 years.

One coach argued he had a minute (back when it was still 30 seconds). At the end of the 30 seconds, I whacked him and walked away.

The other coach -- pretty similar, except he wanted to argue the foul. End of 20 seconds with no sub even talked to, I whacked him and walked away. Partner had to keep him from coming onto the court and in a sense I wish my partner would've shown him the gate.

Yup, happened to me two weeks ago. Coach had been an ass starting with the first whistle but we had been trying to talk to him. Partner calls a foul which disqualifies his girl; notifies him. Dude just stands there looking at my partner and doesn't send a player in so partner starts the clock. Clock guy doesn't buzz after five seconds so 20 seconds later the horn goes and the coach now tells someone to get up. Too late coach, but partner didn't do anything. The timer kinda screwed things up by not hitting that first horn. :mad:

Partner should've said:

"Horn. Now....." after the five seconds had clearly elapsed.

I've seen so many officials screw up the DQ procedure cause they just aren't willing to start the clock and keep things moving. It's not a free timeout for the teams.