First Time Doing Men's League
 

Hey guys-

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've really enjoyed you guys' insight since I discovered this forum and appreciate your input. I decided to finally sign up and post this question after talking with a couple of buddies about it.

After being able to avoid him for a few years, my buddy finally roped me in to reffing in his Sunday men's league that he runs as director of Parks and Rec in our town. I've been officiating high school for a few years, so I'm pretty comfortable at that level. My first experience with officiating was with intramurals in college so I've done something similar to the men's league in the past.

My question is this-- In the guidelines for officials, it mentions to expect a certain number of comments from players and deal with them. If they get too bad, issue a warning then a T. I'm a little nervous about this part of the deal because it seems like it's setting the tone of allowing the players to give the officials a bunch of crap. If any of you ref leagues like this during the summer (or in season I suppose), how much do you let go, and how do you handle this to keep things in control but not have rabbit ears? I don't have thin skin by any means, but it also annoys me when coaches constantly chirp at me during high school games, but they're pretty easy to shut down most times with a "I hear you coach, that's enough" or something similar. With these guidelines, I'm not exactly sure what to expect. Any insight or advice you guys can offer would be really helpful. Thanks, in advance.

I generally live by the oft quoted creed: "What you permit, you promote."

It's up to you to decide what and how much you and your partner is going to take.

In mens wreck league I would suggest you either don't do it or don't take anything from the players. 9/10 times it's not worth the aggravation.

When I do adult basketball in the off-season I engage in a lot more conversation with the players. At some point you just say, out loud, "ok, that's enough, play basketball". After that point you then have to follow through when someone crosses the line. Do that a couple times and you will find the players will respect you and move on to either playing basketball or finding another official to whine to.

+1

I've enjoyed it actually. Only done it a few times but it's much easier (to me). You can engage a little bit and sorta give their crap back to them if they are a little mouthy. With anything in life, you draw your own line and make it known you have done so and if they don't listen, issue the penalty.


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Totally agree. In men's league, when they start talking about perceived missed calls, etc., I'll come back with something about how many missed shots their team has which has contributed more to their deficit on the scoreboard than any calls they thought should have been made.

And when it comes time to tell them, "Enough, play basketball," do it loud enough so that everyone in the gym hears you so that 2 minutes later when you have to whack someone, everyone knows why.

This is key. But it's also key to know to what degree the league will support you. Some officials have shorter fuses than others. It's really up to you to set the tone for your games, but do something to let the teams have an idea of just how much leeway they have with you.

And if the league expects you to take more than you're willing to, than tell your buddy to find someone else.

Couldn't agree more.

If the league expects you to just be there for the sake of being there and doesn't support your decisions, then it's just glorified recess and not a good thing for you to be doing.

Officiating men's wreck league is a whole different beast than your typical 'interscholastic contest' and thus presents several unique challenges. First, there is no "coach" per se; therefore, you must deal directly with the players in resolving protests on in-game issues.
Secondly, many such players are looking for a 'scapegoat' (i.e., someone to assign their poor performance and diminished playing capabilities to): missed a layup under slight defensive pressure--they are always crying 'foul';improper post-play defense technique like holding cutters and arm bar tangling--they will cry "how am I supposed to play defense?"; called for grossly inhibiting RSBQ of ball handler because of their low fitness level and training does not enable them to properly shuffle feet on defense and maintain LGP -- they will often cry "let us play".
Thirdly, there is no 'quality control' over the crew partners you are working with--e.g., you could be a state certified and competent ref whereas your partner(s) could be untutored in the current practice of rules of play and POE--in other words: 'just a good guy [or gal]' the league assignor knows who is free and not watching football on a weekend.
Solutions: as other posters have indicated--to cope with the chirping from such type of players you ought to use "progressive discipline" approach: step 1) issue a warning to players about the chirping and pause to notate the time of such warning to the score table (this acts as a public recording of the event); 2) if such chirping persists, then be strong and serve the cup of T. The other players (both teammates and opposition) will greatly respect you for doing it--male psychology is such that the male respects another man who stands up to him (despite any difference in physical stature). 3) Now mind you that if your partner is less inclined to assertiveness than you are, then you will have problems if you don't pre-game with partner on how you will handle excessive chirpings. 4) when reffing men's wreck league it is very important to impress upon the players that you are the authority figure on the court--that you are reasonable and have a low tolerance for disrespectful behavior. Remember that other men are looking to you to enforce fair play and discipline--you want to be viewed as the "alpha-dawg'' on the court. You want those players to have the perception in their minds that "don't piss off that one ref because he don't take no $h*!(*% in the game".
Lastly, if you are a serious interscholastic ref, then you should be warned that your officiating skills could become moderately degraded by working such wreck league games wherein issues such as proper positioning, mechanics, and other aspects that inhere with an NF game are not emphasized. In otherwords, the wreck league games are basically "glorified recess".

I do as little wreck ball as possible. I don't enjoy it. I don't know if I've ever done a game without whacking someone. They are habitual babies.

I take that back- my toddler behaves much better than they do.

I agree- working too much wreck ball will degrade your availability.

How does working wreck ball degrade your availability? You determine your own availability.

I tell the league that I work that my first priority is to my high school schedule, and I'll give them what I can after that. I have also put them on warning that even if I have games with them, if I get an emergency call from my high school assignor needing a last minute fill-in, I will give them as much notice as possible, but I will go help my HS Assignor when called upon to do so.

My bad. I got autocorrected- I meant to say ability.

Rec league work CAN degrade your mechanics and ability... if you let it. The trick is to try not to let it happen.

That would be considered "doing too much" for most adult leagues.

Yeah, but if it's a running clock, as the league I work is, then do it, and take your time doing so. :D

I don't do rec basketball (save for a couple of charity tourneys), but I know someone who runs one, and has a simple rule:

Any technical foul is a $25 fine, payable immediately. You can't play again until it's paid.

The league I work is $10, and you're out for the remainder of the half in which the TF occurs.

Several years ago, it was only $5 and just had to be paid before you could come back in, but most players had their money on the table before we finished shooting the FTs.

*Yep, you guys/gals are sharp! That is why I do take the time to report warnings to the scorer table because that league had a running 20 minute clock--and it took me like 1 full minute to report the incident, another 30 seconds to re-assemble players for a throw-in to resume play, and another 30 seconds for the players to re-organize/compose themselves. Thus, the action accomplished a two-fold purpose for me: 1) to initiate "progressive discipline" and 2) to accelerate/shorten the completion time of said contest.

With men's leagues, so much depends on the level of play and the earnestness of the players (and as noted earlier, administration).

Meaning, many guys are out there playing to get some exercise or share some camaraderie. Get in their mindset. They'll be pissed at themselves more than you in many cases. That's why it pays to not react to every single utterance or first reaction.

Thinking back to my own men's league days, when things were going south, I'd usually a) get on myself (not always non-profanely) or, less often, b) blame a ref (non-profanely).

The key is how quickly a player lets go of it. If he keeps harping, get out the stop sign. His teammates will probably thank you.

As I used to good-naturedly tell the refs when I played, I paid to sweat and complain a bit. They got paid to hear it —*to some small degree. One particularly poor-performing Amesman night, before my officiating days started, I actually did chide a ref for supposedly not being in good position after I "was fouled" on a missed shot.

As we headed back down court, he calmly told me to take it easy and I shot back, "What I can't complain now?" He boomed back: "You can complain about your own playing, just not ME!" No extra testosterone, no T served. Message delivered and peace reigned.

A few months later, I went to my first officials association meeting and found out this guy was a state-finals official, the dean of area officials -- and is now one of my major assignors. True story. I've never brought it up with him, and I don't think he ever would remember anyway. Just water under the bridge.

Oh, finally: If you're going to take the paycheck for these games, you still have to hustle. You will save yourself a lot of grief if you don't appear to be lazy. Think about it: The last thing a panting, busting-butt player wants to see is a guy in stripes trailing plays, looking like he's there just to pick up the check.

Thanks for all of the input, it was really helpful. A couple of points:

1. It's a Sunday league, so availability due to HS games is not an issue.

2. On the subject of laziness, that's something that I noticed a lot with intramurals and weekend lower level tourneys-- refs that are way out of position, trailing fast breaks (i.e. just getting to half court as the L when the ball is put up), etc. It drives me crazy, and I hate when a member of my crew does it because it makes us both look terrible. If you can't get up and down reasonably, find a different hobby.

3. I'm not sure on the clock rules (hopefully it's running), but I really like the idea of taking your time to report the warning. It's a passive-aggressive jab back at the player on top of a good way to end the chirping.

4. I'm fairly certain that there is no fine for a "T," but I will definitely be approaching my buddy to suggest that for next year.

5. In the ref guidelines, it says to show up 15 min before your game. Doesn't sound like there will be a lot of time for a good solid pre-game.

If you want a pre game for a rec league you need to ride to the game with your partner. 15 to 30 minutes prior is standard for rec leagues around these parts

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At 30 minutes, I'm about 20 minutes from arriving when I work youth/rec ball. My pregame is to change my shoes, decide who's tossing the ball, and deciding that we're not switching on non-shooting fouls.

What this guy said (except I usually show up in my game shoes). Also a lot of these games get about 50% sprint from me. There is no way in hell I'm giving it 100% at a 4th grade girls tourney, and I guarantee you whatever percentage I give you still get a better product than many of the officials who just don't know how to ref.

Since when did 4th grade girls start playing in adult male rec leagues?

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I knew I saw it.

The league I'm in also has a 3 Ts per season per player limit. After that, you're done for the season.

Check with other refs
 

Check with other officials and find out if the league administrators have your back. If they don't, do yourself a favor and pass.

I worked a wreck league where a player physically assaulted an official (threw a ball as hard as he could into the back of the official's head). The guy was given a lousy week's suspension. I quit. So did a bunch of others.

I have also worked for a park and recreation department that protected the refs. Two technicals on a team was a team forfeit. Players behaved themselves and played basketball.

Even then, it wasn't worth it.

I take this approach and it works well for me. Remember that they are adults too -- a lot different than high school kids. Treating them as such rather than trying to act like an authority figure goes a long way in my opinion. Most of the time. When they cross the line, they usually know it and aren't surprised by the penalty.

Last night went smooth for the most part. Had to T a guy up who didn't like a charge call so he threw the ball up to the rafters. Probably missed a call where a guy got a bloody nose, but I honestly still don't know how in the world it happened because there wasn't contact from my perspective. Obviously I wasn't in good position and missed something. Other than that, it was actually fun being able to tell players to quit whining or tell them how lazy their defense is when I call a reach that they don't like. It was pretty easy money. Thanks again for all the advice, it definitely helped.

If I were playing, I wouldn't like any "reach" that you called.

Handcheck. Old habits.

I assign a men's league and sometimes I find it difficult to find the right type of official to work it:

Newer officials will hustle but they might not be assertive enough to tell the players when it's time to keep their mouths shut. (For the most part the league is fairly well behaved)

Experienced officials have no problem asserting their authority (in fact, they might be a little quick to give a T), but they don't necessarily hustle as much, which can be tricky: say the official calls a foul way out of position and a player loudly complains and then the official whacks him.

It's trickier because the league wants some say in who works their games. They dont want a total hack, which is understandable. But at the same time, I have to tell them that there are a lot of good officials who simply want nothing to do with a men's league.

What do you define as "total hack"?


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