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-   -   How do you emphasize a rule that doesn't exist? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100103-how-do-you-emphasize-rule-doesnt-exist.html)

Scrapper1 Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:09pm

How do you emphasize a rule that doesn't exist?
 
From this year's POE #3: "On release of the ball by the free thrower, the defender boxing out shall not cross the free-throw line into the semicircle until the ball contacts the ring or backboard."

I love this rule. It used to be the rule 30 years ago. Can anybody cite this rule for me?

JRutledge Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:30pm

There is no rule, but you cannot displace the shooter.

Peace

Rich Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 966657)
From this year's POE #3: "On release of the ball by the free thrower, the defender boxing out shall not cross the free-throw line into the semicircle until the ball contacts the ring or backboard."

I love this rule. It used to be the rule 30 years ago. Can anybody cite this rule for me?

It wasn't the rule 30 years ago. It was a rule for 4 years, from 1993-94 until the lane restrictions were changed in 1997-98 and it became unnecessary.

(The NFHS handbook is a treasure trove of historical rule information. Love the digital access I got with my NFHS membership. BTW, the alternating possession arrow is 30 years old this year -- it was adopted in 1985-86, two years before I started officiating HS basketball.)

I'm not bothered at all about it. I'll simply call a violation and point at the POE if asked.

I stopped being pedantic about the rules about 10 years ago. Really liberating, you should try it!

deecee Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich (Post 966661)
i stopped being pedantic about the rules about 10 years ago. Really liberating, you should try it!

+1.

Scrapper1 Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 966661)
It wasn't the rule 30 years ago. It was a rule for 4 years, from 1993-94 until the lane restrictions were changed in 1997-98 and it became unnecessary.

Ok, I honestly have no idea what the rules were 30 years ago. But I knew that it had been a rule at one point long ago.

Quote:

I stopped being pedantic about the rules about 10 years ago. Really liberating, you should try it!
"Pedantic" seems to be somewhat a matter of opinion, since one person's trivial detail is another's crucial distinction ("marked by a narrow focus on or display of learning especially its trivial aspects"), but I take your point.

I happen to think that it's important for the rules, case plays and POEs to be internally consistent. It bothers me when one section of the book says x and another section says not-x. It also bothers me when it appears that the people who are entrusted with the rules of the game seem to have a cavalier attitude about the changes that they make.

I realize not everybody feels the same way, but the details matter to me.

JRutledge Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 966661)

I stopped being pedantic about the rules about 10 years ago. Really liberating, you should try it!

Is this just in basketball? :eek:

Just kidding. :p

Peace

JRutledge Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 966667)

I realize not everybody feels the same way, but the details matter to me.

OK, but what are you looking to confirm? The rule is written the way it is. There is no rule for crossing the FT line like their used to be. I do not believe any other level had that rule in place but the NF. But you still can protect the shooter from being displaced, but the issue is no longer crossing a line.

I do not see this as a big deal. The rule is different now, that is all.

Peace

Rich Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 966670)
OK, but what are you looking to confirm? The rule is written the way it is. There is no rule for crossing the FT line like their used to be. I do not believe any other level had that rule in place but the NF. But you still can protect the shooter from being displaced, but the issue is no longer crossing a line.

I do not see this as a big deal. The rule is different now, that is all.

Peace

Well, that's the point he's making. Maybe I'm being too blasé about it after all.

The NFHS is saying that it's a rule (based on the POE), but then forgot to put it in the rules proper.

Hugh Refner Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 966661)
BTW, the alternating possession arrow is 30 years old this year --

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...gL._SX300_.jpg

Scrapper1 Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 966671)
The NFHS is saying that it's a rule (based on the POE), but then forgot to put it in the rules proper.

Exactly, I think they're saying in the POE to call a violation; but it's not listed as a violation in the rulebook or casebook.

Freddy Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 966671)
. . . but then forgot to put it in the rules proper.

As I await delivery of the new rulebook and casebook, I had imagined they'd add this as a violation somewhere.
Did you get a look at the new rulebook?

Rich Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 966676)
As I await delivery of the new rulebook and casebook, I had imagined they'd add this as a violation somewhere.
Did you get a look at the new rulebook?

It's not in the NFHS Central Hub yet and we haven't received them yet in my state.

I hear the mechanics manual has been completely overhauled, though, so it will be interesting to see what changes they snuck in there.

JRutledge Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 966676)
As I await delivery of the new rulebook and casebook, I had imagined they'd add this as a violation somewhere.
Did you get a look at the new rulebook?

I have the rulebooks and casebook and I do not see this at all. But maybe I will do some investigation to be sure of that. I just did not notice any change in the rules this year yet.

Peace

bballref3966 Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 966677)
I hear the mechanics manual has been completely overhauled, though, so it will be interesting to see what changes they snuck in there.

I've only skimmed it, but the thing I immediately noticed was that the new manual contains a description of each signal and how the NFHS wants each signal made.

The other thing I immediately checked for was whether or not they're allowing two-handed reporting. Alas, still required to use one hand according to the NFHS.

Scrapper1 Mon Sep 14, 2015 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 966676)
Did you get a look at the new rulebook?

I just got mine today and it's not listed as a violation in Rule 8 or 9.


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