The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 14, 2003, 12:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, TN (east of Memphis)
Posts: 783
Question

Strict OBR:

A runner misses home, enters the dugout, then immediately comes back out onto the field and retouches.

Subsequently, the defense appeals that the runner missed home.

Ruling?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 14, 2003, 07:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally posted by David Emerling
Strict OBR:
Und according to zee strictist ÖBR, vin zee runner enters into zee hùsen-duggën...

Actaully I'm not sure. I don't have knowledge of all the JUA, BBC and M-O-U-S-E interpretations. I would guess he could still return, in that he has not really adondoned his duties of running the bases, but only "realizied" that the plate had been missed.

I would also think that whether the runner was one step short of, or one step past the entrance to the dugout would have no bearing on whether this was a relaxed or unrelaxed appeal. (But that's another discussion.)
__________________
Dan
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 14, 2003, 05:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally posted by David Emerling
Strict OBR:

A runner misses home, enters the dugout, then immediately comes back out onto the field and retouches.

Subsequently, the defense appeals that the runner missed home.

Ruling?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Hmmmm. It depends what you mean by "Stict OBR:", David.

If you mean using the OBR rules without interpretation from any source:
  • I believe a case could be made for abandonment of the base paths the moment the runner entered the dugout.

  • I don't believe a case could be made for the expiration of the runner's right to correct his error because he voluntarily entered DBT - the dugout has always been a "special case" of DBT
If you mean using OBR rules with only the approved interpretations of MLB and NAPBL/PBUC:
  • There has been a ruling from Cris Jones on behalf of the PBUC that the runner may return from the dugout to correct a base running error, provided only that he does so in a timely manner. A "timely manner" was left to umpire discretion.

  • Actual text of ruling was:

    PBUC answer: If we were working for NAPBL as umpires; we would be instructed to allow the runner to come back out of the dugout to correct a baserunning mistake if he does it in a timely manner. Once he has walked away from the plate and/or gone into the dugout, the defense does not have to tag him. They need only appeal.

    The runner can come back out, but does NOT have to be tagged and he can't be in the dugout beyond a reasonable amount of time (umpire's judgment) and then come out.
In your case the runner returned immediately. That's allowed under the PBUC interpretation.

Hope this helps

Cheers
__________________
Warren Willson
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 14, 2003, 09:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 768
Quote:
Originally posted by David Emerling
Strict OBR:

A runner misses home, enters the dugout, then immediately comes back out onto the field and retouches.

Subsequently, the defense appeals that the runner missed home.

Ruling?

The PBUC ruling Warren quoted has been trumped (at least for major league baseball) by this approved ruling in the MLB Umpire Manual:

Section 5.4 APPEAL PLAYS: APPROVED RULINGS
...
(11) May a runner who has missed a base return to retouch the missed base after having entered the dugout?

Answer: No.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 15, 2003, 01:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Hensley

The PBUC ruling Warren quoted has been trumped (at least for major league baseball) by this approved ruling in the MLB Umpire Manual:

Section 5.4 APPEAL PLAYS: APPROVED RULINGS
...
(11) May a runner who has missed a base return to retouch the missed base after having entered the dugout?

Answer: No.
Dave, I have noted several references to the subject MLB Umpire Manual on a number of boards lately. Has the document been broadly published, ie outside MLB, or do you have access through some 3rd party source?

There is no doubt that the manual is an extremely valuable resource, based on the few citations that I've seen. Given the now outdated status of JEA, and the apparently non-approved nature of the new J/R, I suspect there are many officials who like me would want to have first-hand access to the approved MLB document. Is there a source we can address?

Regards
__________________
Warren Willson
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 15, 2003, 07:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 768
I believe I saw someone post on another board that Rick Roder, or maybe somebody else affiliated with the WUA, has said that the MLB Umpire Manual is intended to be available to the general public at some point, although no specific timetable was established yet.

The version I've seen is just one of those "friend of a friend" things.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:17am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1