OBR 5.11 is it or is it not

[wpiced]

All right, I belong to a rather influential umpire's association in the San Francisco Bay Area. One of the officers of the association is truly an expert on the baseball rules, OBR, NFHS, NCAA, USSSA, etc. He clearly says that, "a dead ball becomes live when the pitcher steps on the rubber with the ball."

Now, I have read and reread rule 5.11 of the OBR and I just can't see it. "THE PLATE UMPIRE SHALL CALL "PLAY" AS SOON AS THE PITCHER TAKES HIS PLACE ON HIS PLATE WITH THE BALL IN HIS POSSISSION." That seems to be a requirement for the UIC. But, What if the F3 is still standing in foul territory when F1 steps on the rubber and the UIC is waiting for F3 to get into fair territory. R1 bolts for second base. If I am the UIC, I put R1 back on first and tell him to wait until I put the ball in play. By the way, so that there is no misunderstanding, I always "point" the ball in play and will not allow any action until I do.

Now, where am I wrong?

[cowbyfan1]

Well for one thinf in Fed, not only must the pitcher be on the rubber, F2 must be ready to catch a pitch and the batter must be in the box to call play. To any extent, you are right. Maybe the pitcher is on the rubber but if I am not ready or my partner is not ready I still have time out. To me the OBR rule you sited is the must. If the pitcher is not on the rubber you cannot call play.

[wpiced]

Thanks, Jim. I hope other replies are as positive as yours. I have a high regard for this association official, and I am embarassed when I see what appears to be such an obvious mistake. How can an official possibly kept order in the game (baseball or any sport) if the official doesn't have full control over the dead ball, live ball, time out, time in, etc.

[GarthB]

He clearly says that, "a dead ball becomes live when the pitcher steps on the rubber with the ball."

He is just as clearly wrong.

Many associations have rules experts that occasionally make errors. Sometimes experts mistake things that they are used to doing for things that should be done.

I went to an NCAA clinic where one of the head clinicians screwed up the DH rule. It happens.

[Jim Porter]

Something that needs to be said here. Just because an umpire fails to say, "Play," doesn't mean the ball is never made live. At some point, it becomes a live ball even if the umpire fails to call, "Play."

At what point is that? I don't know. It's not proper mechanics, and I've never had to see if anyone had an interpretation or not. It wouldn't be out of the question, however, that if an umpire under the OBR fails to call, "Play," that play can become live when the pitcher possesses the ball and legally takes position on the rubber. I suppose that's possible. Bad mechanics, poor form, but possible.

[cowbyfan1]

I agree with that Jim. A good blue would do it right from the start. Hand up, point and say play. Until then, nodda.

[chris s]

Originally posted by wpiced
All right, I belong to a rather influential umpire's association in the San Francisco Bay Area. One of the officers of the association is truly an expert on the baseball rules, OBR, NFHS, NCAA, USSSA, etc. He clearly says that, "a dead ball becomes live when the pitcher steps on the rubber with the ball."

Now, I have read and reread rule 5.11 of the OBR and I just can't see it. "THE PLATE UMPIRE SHALL CALL "PLAY" AS SOON AS THE PITCHER TAKES HIS PLACE ON HIS PLATE WITH THE BALL IN HIS POSSISSION." That seems to be a requirement for the UIC. But, What if the F3 is still standing in foul territory when F1 steps on the rubber and the UIC is waiting for F3 to get into fair territory. R1 bolts for second base. If I am the UIC, I put R1 back on first and tell him to wait until I put the ball in play. By the way, so that there is no misunderstanding, I always "point" the ball in play and will not allow any action until I do.

Now, where am I wrong?

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FERMAR????? I work for PSM down in Monterey, FERMAR has some unbelievable hacks in san Jose, tiss the good ol boy sit up there....

[chris s]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wpiced
[B]All right, I belong to a rather influential umpire's association in the San Francisco Bay Area. One of the officers of the association is truly an expert on the baseball rules, OBR, NFHS, NCAA, USSSA, etc. He clearly says that, "a dead ball becomes live when the pitcher steps on the rubber with the ball."

Now, I have read and reread rule 5.11 of the OBR and I just can't see it. "THE PLATE UMPIRE SHALL CALL "PLAY" AS SOON AS THE PITCHER TAKES HIS PLACE ON HIS PLATE WITH THE BALL IN HIS POSSISSION." That seems to be a requirement for the UIC. But, What if the F3 is still standing in foul territory when F1 steps on the rubber and the UIC is waiting for F3 to get into fair territory. R1 bolts for second base. If I am the UIC, I put R1 back on first and tell him to wait until I put the ball in play. By the way, so that there is no misunderstanding, I always "point" the ball in play and will not allow any action until I do.
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If a player is not completely in fair territory, let the ofended team complain, if F1 and F2 are in position, B1 is "reasonably" set, put it in play. O coach then comes crying that F3 had a foot in foul area..."Hey F3, get your *** in the playing field". Next time, toss F3. Until you make ball live, there can be no advance, piock, pitch, out...etc

[wpiced]

Thank you gentlemen. I have no intention on taking on our association's rules man, but I do plan to stay with my interpretation of OBR 5.11 and manage my games accordingly.

Even though I officiate older players, I did get an assignment(play offs)for back-to-back 12U games. It was fun and I look forward to another assignment like that -- but this age group does not have an awareness of the condition of the ball at any given time. There is always a kid on first trying to steal second that gets the pitcher all up-cited. F1 starts jumping off the rubber and faking a throw to first -- you have all seen this. I immediately yell out, "Hey guys, relax. The ball is dead. Keep an eye on me and I will tell you when to play," Coaches and moms sport a grin.

One other point, and this is with all levels of hardball. I walk part way to the mound to get F1's attention and tell him, "TIME!" Then I brush the plate. I have never heard of it happening, but I do not want to be the first to receive a colon ball. And after all, my BB2000 doen't cover my Southern exposure.

[Boone]

5.11 indicates that two requirements are needed for a ball to be live, F1 has the ball in his possession while on the rubber and PU declares "play."

Now there are times when it becomes live without PU saying "play". Its when he forgets! I worked three 9-inning games yesterday (two by choice and one by favor) and on my second dish of the day I was getting fatigued. At least twice i forgot to put the ball in play. The pitcher pitched, the batter batted and play resumed. Maybe play became live when I thought it!

Not that I recomend it, but it does happen...

[LDUB]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
Well for one thinf in Fed, not only must the pitcher be on the rubber, F2 must be ready to catch a pitch and the batter must be in the box to call play. To any extent, you are right. Maybe the pitcher is on the rubber but if I am not ready or my partner is not ready I still have time out. To me the OBR rule you sited is the must. If the pitcher is not on the rubber you cannot call play.

The catcher does not have to be ready to catch a pitch. The catcher could be standing with his back to the pitcher as long as both of his feet are iniside the catcher's box. FED rule 5-1-4.