Help the basketball ref with the balk rule
 

First off, I respect the baseball umps so much that I don't want your job. I'll stick with basketball.

I know balks are a never ending question. However, I tried searching many resources to find the accurate interpretation of what is as described in rule 8.01(b)

Specifically, at a junior high level game. Runner on first. Left handed pitcher from the set position (hands at belt level), goes into his motion. Lifts his right leg and holds it in a balanced postion for 1-2 seconds (hands at chest level, no break). Then, makes his choice of home or first. He picked off 3 kids in a row.

Is that legal? is there a time limit that he can keep his leg up? or does it have to be one continuous motion either home or to 1st? Do the hands have anything to do with the call since they went from set at the belt to set again at the chest.

I hope I explained it correctly. thanks for your input.

The pertinent language in 8.01(b) is at the end of the rule, where it says, "After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption." The pitcher you describe is definitely interrupting his natural motion, and a balk should have been called.

Manny, I think the key here is failing to pitch to the batter with one "continuous" motion. The "hanging leg" can certainly be the culprit to call a Balk. If "as described" it sounds like a candidate for a balk. A good lefty will always give you fits.

If other body parts keep moving then the motion has not been interrupted. Just hanging the leg in and of itself isn't enough to make the balk call.

Rotating Hands?
 

Would you allow F1 to hang his leg and rotate his hands (with his hands together) in a circle several times before committing to pitch or throw to first?

Sorry Rich, but I have to disagree! The legs are part of the throwing motion. By stopping/pausing creates a great advantage IMO.

So are the arms and torso. Can I stop them but continue with the leg.

Know what a balance point is for a pitcher?

A2D I guess.

But I wouldn't allow a pitcher to hang his leg for 10 seconds while looking at the runner and moving his joined hands up and down and round and round either. The movement is supposed to be a "natural pitching motion", and there's nothing natural about that.

Are you implying that every body part must be continually in motion during a pitch?

I'm saying, if the pitcher stands there and stops his motion and is there balancing on one leg, I'm balking him.

Yeah ... me too. Everyone else here as well, I believe.

If as described" it sounds like a candidate for a balk.

If the LHP comes to a complete halt with that leg in the air - nothing moving - that's a balk. You can call it a double set or start & stop, but it's a balk. Now, if the LHP is real good, he'll be leaning forward and/or "curling up". Then, he better go to the plate.

Thanks guys! I appreciate the insight. Much more thoughtful than listening to a coach tell me emphatically that it is a rule that a pitcher can hang his leg for 3 seconds, I should know better than to talk to a coach about rules.

Thanks again guys.

Where do these yayhoos come up with this crap anyway? Three seconds? It says that in a rule book somewhere? Really, coach??

Unfreakingbelievable.

I agree totally. Most of the time the pitcher uses the "hanging leg" to freeze the runner and continues to the plate.

But in the play, he went to the base - that would be a balk in my games.

Thanks
David

A different scenario
 

I was wondering if I could get feedback on a different scenario.

My son is a RHP.

With a runner on 2b he works out of the stretch. While engaged with the rubber he lifts his non-pivot leg in the normal fashion. While his non-pivot leg is coming up he turns his head (only his head) to check the runner. Then he turns his head back towards HP and completes pitch to the plate.

There is no pause or interruption in his movement. He just looks to 2b while in his movement.

Opposing coaches complain it is a balk but umpires disagree.

I am wondering if coaches might be right. It is not an interruption of his regular movement but it is an alteration and it is deceptive because he can easily continue pivoting to 2b in one movement and attempt a pick-off throw.

Part 2 to this question comes from my son in the event the prevailing opinion is that it is a balk. That is, why is a slide step allowed because that is also an alteration of his normal movement.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

No rule requires that the motion be consistent.

No rule makes moving the head a balk.

A pitcher's job is to deceive. If he wasn't allowed to deceive he'd have to announce the pitch type and location. He just has to do it within the rules.

Stop wondering. They aren't. (as described)

I don't understand what a coach would be complaining about - that just shows that their understanding of baseball is a minimum.

Have they never heard of Luis Tiant? He comes to mind…

As Rich stated, there is nothing in the rules that prevents what he is doing.
As long as he continues his motion to pitch he is fine.

Thanks
David

It is not an interruption of his regular movement but it is an alteration and it is deceptive because he can easily continue pivoting to 2b in one movement and attempt a pick-off throw.

CORRECTION

It is not an interruption of his regular movement but it is an alteration which is legal in the sport of Baseball. He is also allowed to continue pivoting to 2b in one movement and attempt a pick-off throw.

Your F1 is Good2Go. Play Ball! :)

Two words: Fernando Valenzuela.

JJ

I thought he looked toward heaven:rolleyes:

That was Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh.

Rich,

Great job of explaining that it IS the pitchers job to deceive !!!!

Fernando did also.

Does it make any difference? :confused:

Spirit is everywhere! :cool: