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-   -   First year ump, confused by the number of interpretations of a balk (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/97924-first-year-ump-confused-number-interpretations-balk.html)

Pacedog Mon May 19, 2014 08:12am

First year ump, confused by the number of interpretations of a balk
 
Yeah, it seems like depending upon the league or park you go to and whomever you speak to, a balk isn't always a balk. Parks range from USSSA to Cal Ripken (?) rules. Where to what base a kid can make a feint to and not throw or has to throw. Thought I had it down last week and spoke to a guy who said he's been umping for years and it was totally different from some of the stuff I have read here, read even on the MLB 8.05 rule etc.

jicecone Mon May 19, 2014 08:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacedog (Post 934371)
Yeah, it seems like depending upon the league or park you go to and whomever you speak to, a balk isn't always a balk. Parks range from USSSA to Cal Ripken (?) rules. Where to what base a kid can make a feint to and not throw or has to throw. Thought I had it down last week and spoke to a guy who said he's been umping for years and it was totally different from some of the stuff I have read here, read even on the MLB 8.05 rule etc.

There are some differences depending on the ruleset however, I would say approximatey 95% to 98% of the rules on balks are the same. (OBR,NCAA,NFHS)

I am not familar with USSSA or Cal Ripken but I cant believe that the rules are that much different.

bob jenkins Mon May 19, 2014 09:00am

A big issue is that MLB (and, thus, it's in OBR) has made a fake to third illegal. (FED and NCAA continue to allow the move.)

Some codes that "borrow" OBR have also made this illegal; others continue to allow it.

Robert E. Harrison Mon May 19, 2014 09:17am

OBR - Balk?
 
F3 is playing back in his normal position not holding runner on at first. Pitcher executes a jump turn and throws to F3.

Balk in OBR?

Fed?

bob jenkins Mon May 19, 2014 09:22am

Generally, yes -- in both codes.

If F3 is "making a play" on the runner (and that's judgment), then it's legal

Robert E. Harrison Mon May 19, 2014 09:24am

OBR - Balk?
 
It was all F3 could do to catch the ball (a la Craig Nettles)

Rich Mon May 19, 2014 09:25am

Just an unrelated note -- it's always legal to throw to the base, even with no fielder there.

Also, it's legal to step to second or third and throw to a fielder (F4, F5, F6) in position rather than to the base as long as F1 steps to an occupied base or to a base for the purpose of making a play.

Rich Mon May 19, 2014 09:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison (Post 934380)
It was all F3 could do to catch the ball (a la Craig Nettles)

Graig. :D

Graig Nettles Great Plays 1978 World Series New York Yankees - YouTube

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Uid-nqb9SAU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If he wasn't a .248 career hitter, he'd be in the HOF. Probably should be anyway.

Paul L Mon May 19, 2014 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 934381)
Just an unrelated note -- it's always legal to throw to the base, even with no fielder there.

Also, it's legal to step to second or third and throw to a fielder (F4, F5, F6) in position rather than to the base as long as F1 steps to an occupied base or to a base for the purpose of making a play.

But if it's illegal to feint to third (e.g., OBR, PONY), then throwing to F5 when he is not in a position to make a play on the runner is a balk, same as F3.

Rich Mon May 19, 2014 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 934395)
But if it's illegal to feint to third (e.g., OBR, PONY), then throwing to F5 when he is not in a position to make a play on the runner is a balk, same as F3.

I work no baseball where that stupid rule is in place. Fortunately.

But you're right. If the no fake to third rule is in place, then the pitcher must throw to third with the same conditions as throwing to first. Thanks for catching that.

DG Mon May 19, 2014 10:28pm

OBR, its a balk if the feint to 3b is with runner on 1b also. A feint to 3b with no runner on 1b is nothing. This new ruling eliminates the 3rd to 1st move.

Matt Mon May 19, 2014 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 934442)
OBR, its a balk if the feint to 3b is with runner on 1b also. A feint to 3b with no runner on 1b is nothing. This new ruling eliminates the 3rd to 1st move.

Wrong. Any feint to 3rd is a balk.

DG Mon May 19, 2014 10:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt (Post 934443)
Wrong. Any feint to 3rd is a balk.

I stand corrected upon review of the new 2014 rules.

Matt Mon May 19, 2014 11:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 934446)
I stand corrected upon review of the new 2014 rules.

It's not new for this year.

Pacedog Tue May 20, 2014 08:06am

Thanks all! I decided to buy the video. I want to be able to give coaches a clear, concise explanation when they try to challenge calls and not have any doubts of my own because you know that coaches will sense that and just act like Richard Heads.


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