2 rules i ran into this weekend
 

1. we had a balk on the pitcher with a man on third, pitch was called a strike. is this a delayed dead ball? obviously runner gets third but does the strike count with the batter?

2. after a home run hit over the fence, the batter was given a high five by the 3rd base coach as he rounded the bag and by a teammate just before he touches the plate, is the batter out?

we are using major league rules in this tournament. i would like to know the rules in both mlb and nfhs. thanks

in situation 1, runner was on second and was awarded third on the balk. i made a typo.

1. In your case, the ball is dead when the pitch is caught (OBR). It's immediately dead on the balk (NFHS). Move the runner, cancel the pitch (both).

2. No (both).

If the umpires in your tournament ruled this way you should retitle your post to:
"2 clowns I ran into this weekend."

i am sad to say that they did. they took away a home run from a 11 year old that hit an absolute bomb. i am an umpire myself and was very embarrassed for them.

ô!ô
 

Gosh, I wish Mitch Williams was on the offended team in each of these plays.

So, you can only use wood bats, eh?

Oh well, it happens. I'm sure the 11 year old won't be scarred for life. He'll probably hit a lot more of them.

But the real question in my mind is: Did the player's manager protest the call?

You hit the nail on the head, Manny.

So easy to complain about bad umpires after the fact. But most of those guys don't get better because they go home thinking they got it all right. Unless a supervisor happens to be watching when they screw up, they don't get better.

I wish coaches would protest calls when they have a case ... like in this one.

I agree about the protest option....I assume no need to protest calling a strike on a balk unless it caused a strikeout but certainly would have to protest the HR takeaway...get your $100 bill out and have them call the UIC or TD before the next pitch.

Why wouldn't you protest the strike?

I wish umpires (the ones getting paid and not volunteering) would learn the rules.

Doesn't matter if they're volunteer or paid. If they're willing to work the games, they should learn the trade.

I spent my first ten years strictly umpiring Little League Baseball. Never got paid a dime. But I read rule books, case books, and authoritative interpretations, attended clinics, and actively participated in a number of internet discussion boards. I also encouraged my fellow volunteer umpires to do the same.

I agree with you. But you see how hard it is, sometimes, to convince some umpires of the proper ruling - and the vast majority of the umpires out there don't care enough about the job to come to sites like this one. It can be very frustrating.

You are to be commended for that - but you are the exception. I work LL ball once a year - at the end when a nearby league brings in real, paid umpires. I'm always paired (or trio'd) with 1 or 2 umpires they've been using all year. And they scare the crap out of me. I've had them argue with me that the hands ARE part of the bat. I've had them argue that under no circumstances can you award a base that the runner didn't attempt to get to after they were obstructed. I've had them call TIE! on a banger at first. I've had them call time with two runners on the same base. I've had them call a foul-tip-strikeout on a ball that went bat-mask-ground. I've had one guy flat out insist that he would never eject a coach after he got berated by one and we were discussing it between games. "It's not about me, it's about the kids" - so when he botched the hell out of a call and the same coach came flying out - experienced partner and I let him fly in the wind. 5 minutes. No ejection.

And they "get by" with this nonsense all season until their tournaments... and the other "real" umpires and I leave the place stunned and with tons of stories like those I just mentioned.

Our LL District has sent 3 umpires to Williamsport (LLWS), 1 to Bangor (Senior WS), 2 to Taylor (Junior WS). About 7-8 of us have worked the LL Regional and 3 of us worked a regional final on ESPN.

We're also HS and college umpires in the spring. 3 of us have worked (or will work) HS state.

There are a ton of bad LL umpires and there are a ton of bad paid umpires who show up and "try" to "work" 6-7 games in a day not caring at all about the work except for the part where they get paid.

In the end, this has very little to do with volunteer/paid or LL/travel or any of that crap. It has to do with pride and being mentored by the right people along the way and wanting to be as good as one can be. I don't work any harder for that college check than I do for the LL kids.

Rich, I think there are a few pockets out there, like yours, where the "real umpires" do work LL. A friend of mine in Oregon has nothing but positives to say about the LL umpires in his area.

But I think that what I run into is more common, across the country.

The last coach ejection I had was for mentioning to me that I was getting paid, so I should learn the rules.

Really?!!! So what was the eventual result? (I'm guessing "safe" 'cause everybody knows a tie goes to the runner...)

We (me, another experienced guy, and "Tie-man" as he will forever now be known) got together, asked him what he saw. He said a tie. Partner said - "the reason you're on this field is to decide what happened first." He said he didn't know. I said, "There is no tie. Did the throw beat the runner - yes or no." He said no - so we told him to signal safe.

Worse - I hear he called another tie during league play, with no partner, the following season. Don't know how that one got resolved.

Maybe they're still on the field.

A paid Little League Ump
 

I will say this first, baseball is not my #1 sport, actually more like #3. However, I give it my be effort every time I am on the field. I have never done things like you mention other "Little League" umpires have done and I have worked many Regional All Star games in my 5 years of Umpiring. Here is a situation I had last night in a 9/10 yr old game. Bottom of 1st lead off batter is very short. Pitch crosses the outside corner at the knee. I call strike, and the home HC grumbles from in front of the dugout. After the batter struck out, the HC states loudly to the batter "that's ok the Ump owes you one". I let the HC know that I am not going to listen to those types of comments all game. I start to return to the plate and he mouths off more, so I instruct him to get into the dug out. HC then states "so you are going to boss me around because I argued one G-D call. He was then removed from the game and area. Best part was I didn't have to report this as the Pres. of the leagues son is on the HC team and the Pres heard it all.

Did I do right or would you say this was done by a "Little League Ump"?

These are always HTBT, but this sounds fine to me. (I'd make sure you use the word "restrict" when restricting to the dugout)

MD, I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe Little League actually has that as an option. The coaches are supposed to be in the dugout unless they are coaching at 1st or 3rd. I normally don't pay much attention to where they are as long as it is not a problem and they are behaving. Since he didn't want to behave, I decided to enforce the rule.

Don't have a problem with the way you handled this situation however, be consistent. You can't let the coach stand there and then enforce the rules when you feel like it. Then you are causing problems for yourself.

What other rules do you pick and choose when you are to enforce or not? Where does it stop?

Being consistent, does not just apply to your strike zone.

I think inconsistency is ok for this rule. It was 9/10 year-olds. I don't work those games, but I imagine coaches of kids that age are frequently on the field. If a coach is being a douchebag, I can see revoking that privilege.

The degree to which the 'must be in the dugout' rule is enforced is directly proportional to the degree of douchbaggery on the field.

Actually, if it was 9 - 10 it was probably a LL Minors division. If so, they rule book allows coaches on the field for instructional purposes. If they can't constrain themselves to instruct they go in the dugout or beyond.
Real umpires do work LL in my neck of the woods along with some unreal ones. Tournament time they get real umpires.