Illegal pitch? Ball awarded?
 

FED rules. Bases empty. Full count on the batter. Pitcher begins his wind-up catches his spikes on the rubber during his rocker step and stops. He does not deliver to the batter.

Illegal pitch? Ball four?

Typically, nobody calls this an illegal pitch with no runners on base. I don't. But, I'm wondering if the FED powers-that-be expect us to call this an "illegal pitch" and award the batter a ball.

Opinions?

By rule, an IP and a ball in FED.

Lol!
 

Just for historical note:

When Brad Rumble was the Editor of the Rule book (Brad's Book) . . . this exactly violation was called a "Balk" for 15 years.

Tee

rule citation please.

6-1-2 ...... "'after he starts his movement to pitch, he must continue the movement without interruption or alteration...."

Penalty (ART. 1,2,3):

Now read Rule 6-1-4 “…..Each legal pitch shall be declared by the umpire as a strike, ball, fair or foul hit or dead ball. A pitch dropped during delivery and which crosses a foul line shall be called a ball. Otherwise, it will be called a no pitch….”

Since there was not a thrown ball that crossed a foul line shouldn't it be called a no pitch?

This is what a clinician from our state told me when I asked him the question. "No pitch. It can’t be a ball since the pitch (that didn’t happen) didn’t cross a foul line. This happens quite frequently (relatively speaking) at the Major League level. No big deal. Just start over. Who was harmed by it? Nobody…"

I think in the Definition of a pitch NFHS, it states that when a IP is made, "it is not considered a pitch" because the ball became dead at the time of the infraction. The Penalty is a ball or balk (whatever the case may be). But it is definitely NOT a Pitch.

The reason I asked the question (OP), is because I have always known, technically, that the batter is awarded a ball (the penalty for an illegal pitch with no runners on base) but no umpire in our area makes this call; nor do the coaches expect it to be made. I guess it's kind of a regional thing. I was wondering if that was also the case in other parts of the country.

You're right. An illegal pitch is an act by the pitcher which causes a ball to be added to the count (no runners). I'm glad no coach around here knows this. I don't call it either.

So when you encounter one that does, do you tell him that you don't call it?

:D Here in South-West Ohio, I've called this about 3 time in 25 yrs of high school umpiring.:p

Is that because in 25 years, only 3 times has the pitcher, with no runners on base, aborted his delivery for one reason or another? Or, has it actually happened numerous times, but you only chose to invoke the rule 3 times?

I'd have to say that this happens to me, at a minimum, once per year. Sometimes more frequently. My experience is that it's not all that rare.

:p I'm saying that there are a lot of reasons for an aborted pitch, but I've only seen it three times where it was callable.

I've seen times when the pitcher falls or gets to dance with bees or something like that. I've seen dust swirls that cause the pitcher to stop. I've always treated these instances as "do-overs".:eek:

wow. I've seen it once in the past 20 years. I did call it. Both sides murmured that it was the right call.

If all the participants are willing to accept a "do-over" as the correct result, who am I to say differently?

You are the umpire charged with enforcing the rules.

If all the prison inmates are willing to accept "let us all out" as the correct result, who is the warden to say otherwise?

:p There is a definition in the FED rules that cover my stated "do-overs". The Ohio State Rules interpreter covered them some years ago and I questioned Kyle about these incidents at the state required meeting and he outlined them very well. He discussed the dust and insects and also falling because of poor ground conditions.

What the heck in that case, we don't need no stinking umpires.

Just "Let them play"

More money for hot dogs, ice cream and beer after the game.

I've never seen this called in this area in a high school game and I wouldn't call it, and no coaches expect it to be called. I don't pick boogers on this one.

again... what do you say to the one coach that confronts you with the rule?

:p I've had to call a "delay of game" on a pitcher maybe 5 times in the last 10 years and have yet to have a coach question what I called but why I called it.

I've explained the call and when they say "I've never heard of that", I say today, it gets called. :D

:D I have had some assignors tell me that they can not assign me to certain schools as the coaches have complained about me enforcing unknown rules.

I always answer that there are more games then there are days, so assign me somewhere else.:D

None of them do.

No idea why this is considered an infraction in FED, and absolutely nothing in pro ball. I've seen pro pitchers start and abort pitches with nobody on base every now and then, and it is simply ignored. I believe the same is true in NCAA ball.

Perhaps that's why FED coaches expect umpires not to make the Ball call. Frankly, it's dumb to do so. Just another one of those FED rules like the immediate dead ball on a balk, the gorilla arm balk, and the two strikes on one pitch that makes me shake my head.

Nice dodge....

You have two choices when confronted...

1) Tell the coach you are ignorant of the rule
2) Tell the coach you are ignoring the rule

Both are good qualities for an umpire.....:rolleyes:

Here's one for you: Championship game, bottom of the last, HT down one, bases loaded, two out. 90mph fastball gets away and tails in at the batter's head. He spins out of the box trying to save his life, and you are 100% certain one foot is on the ground entirely out of the box when the ball hits his bat. What mechanic are you using to end the game on an illegally batted ball?

Seriously - you've only seen a pitcher begin his delivery and not complete it (with no runners on base) only once in the past 20 years?

And, miraculously, the ball goes into fair territory and amounts to a perfect bunt. Everybody is safe. The tying run scores. Now what? Now who has been disadvantaged?

So your call is not based on the rule, but by who is disadvantaged?

Yes (well -- not counting times that time had been called, or the batter "induced" the stoppage, etc.)

In your hypothetical situation, implicit was that you would NOT call this batter out. Am I mistaken?

You seem to suggest that the batter has, somehow, been unfairly deprived of the opportunity to tie the game. You said that the ball hit his bat but you didn't say where the ball went. If you ignore the fact that his foot was completely outside the batter's box and the ball goes fair and the tying run scores - then what?

What's the mechanic for that? It's your question!

Now this thread is off on a tangent of situational ethics. I didn't intend that. Mostly, I was just wondering if there was a regional propensity to not invoke a certain rule. Another rule in our area that is not enforced very strictly is the requirement for the batter to keep one foot in the batter's box. The only time it is invoked is if, by not having his foot in the batter's box, the game is delayed. And, it is usually preceded by a warning.

Haven't you answered your own question?

No.

Yes. Enforcing the rule (which, in this case, would entail countermanding the spirit and intent of the rule) would do just that.That's because it is irrelevant to the question I asked.Uh, point it fair. Then the next batter comes up.

Sorry, not interested in playing your little game of re-hashing scenario in a 3-4 year old thread, in lieu of answering a question related to the topic at hand.

Besides being apples/oranges, it will do nothing but become an argument about PBUC and how possible/impossible it is to track a 90mph pitch at a players head while seeing whether or not a foot was on the ground completely out of the box during contact with the bat.

Feel free, however to pursue this, I'm sure you will have takers.

Sorry, I didn't answer your question.

Around here, yes. The other night I had a pitcher step off with the wrong foot. He was in the windup and there were no runners. He stepped off because the batter wasn't in the box yet. The count remained 0-0.

Usually if the batter is not in the box, the pitcher cannot pitch unless told to do so. As such, stepping off or dropping his hands or some other action would not be a cause for a penalty. :D

By (FED only) rule this is an illegal pitch and a ball.

Since the warden is a "participant", my conditional is not met.

:p Usually if the batter is not in the box, I have my hand up and as such the ball is dead so there is no penalty.

If I do't have my hand up, then the ball is live and all rules apply.:D

:D I can only remember once in the last 10 yrs where F1 stepped off with the wrong foot during a live ball(that I saw anyway). When this happened, we called a balk.

I try to be consistent in holding up my hand when the batter is not in the box and it looks like F1 might start to pitch.:D

I never put my hand up unless the ball is already dead. I put it up just before I put the ball back in play. That's it.

ô!ô
 

This is a perfect example of how threads go to sh!t.

We have an original post that isn't based on learning, education or fun. It is simply to prod!

Then we get drawn in to the truely poor umpires that post and post (kinda like if they shout maybe you'll listen) that draws in the better umpires on the board to try to save things.

Then the thread goes to crap.

I am not sure if there is any importance 'iffin' you call a "stop/start" at the FED level. Do as your group does.

Let's just move onto other more important things (as the original poster has done to through yet another STUPID play -- i.e. foot out of the box when contacting the ball).

Let's just move on . . . some of us don't have that much time left here on earth.

Tee

I do the same thing. I do not hold my hand up, even if the batter asks me to do so because that causes the ball to be dead. I don't say anything to the batter and they usually do not notice that I am not holding up my hand. High school pitchers never pitch the ball anyway. They wait. This is especially true with runners on base. The runners should not lose their liability to be picked off, nor should the pitcher lose the option to pick them off simply because the batter is digging in.

There is no need for the umpire to hold up his hand because, by rule, the pitcher has an obligation to not deliver the pitch until the batter is reasonably ready. A pitcher who delivers the ball while the batter is clearly not ready (i.e. head down and digging in) is violating a rule. There is no reason to make the ball dead in this situation. Pitchers should have the situational awareness not to pitch the ball when the batter is not ready. Nearly all of them do.