WOW

[cowbyfan1]

Happened to turn on the LLWS and in the game with Canada there was an obvious catcher interfernce. Home plate ump missed it. Coach (audio was on tv) said he saw it and asked the blue to get help twice. Blue refused saying it was his judgement call (that's true) and that he has nothing. Replay not only showed the catcher interference but it also looks like the home plate blue blinked at that time of the interference. Blue should have sacked up and gotten the help instead of having an obvious chip on the shoulder. The batter ended up making an out. Not good.

[brian43]

i didnt see that play, nor did i see the one that im going to tell you about but from what i have seen they have done a decent job. theres always more mistakes than you would think there should be for the world series.

not sure who was playing but my brother told me there was a runner on 1st, the ball went to the outfield on a hard ground ball, so the 2B umpire was going inside the diamond and with his back turned (while running) missed the force at second. my brother said the replays showed the kid was out by 5-6 feet but the umpire said he was safe. anyone see that, and how the hell does that happen?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

From improper mechanics. That's how that happens.

The runner is the BU's responsibility - he should be buttonhooking toward 1st and watching for obstruction as well as the tag or force out situation. Obviously he wasn't watching anything.

I work with so many partners whom I just can't seem to convince to watch their runner... They like to watch the ball out in left field or just seem to watch nothing, only being intent upon getting into position for a play at second... which they aren't watching.

DUH!

I didn't see this play so I don't KNOW what happened but it sounds like poor mechanics.

[chris s]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
Happened to turn on the LLWS and in the game with Canada there was an obvious catcher interfernce. Home plate ump missed it. Coach (audio was on tv) said he saw it and asked the blue to get help twice. Blue refused saying it was his judgement call (that's true) and that he has nothing. Replay not only showed the catcher interference but it also looks like the home plate blue blinked at that time of the interference. Blue should have sacked up and gotten the help instead of having an obvious chip on the shoulder. The batter ended up making an out. Not good.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
Did not see this, but.....you say there was catchers Int......Assuming the F2 reached forward and the B1 smacked glove....HOW the heck does one miss that???? Even if ya blink, you must hear it. Nobodys perfect, and I surely would not ask for help on this...chalk this up to rookage.....

[GarthB]

i didnt see that play, nor did i see the one that im going to tell you about but from what i have seen they have done a decent job.

I would have to respectfully disagree, but I will also acknowledge that one's perception will be based on which games he watched.

From the one's I've seen, strike zones have been more inconistent, there have been more errors in mechanics and judgement and there have been more mistakes in rules interpretation than in any LLWS in the past five years.

Suprisingly to some, I don't fault the umpires. This, in my opinion, is the culmination of years of a terrible selection process that rewards volunteerism more, or as much as proficiency. It is unfair to some of these umpires to put them in this spotlight. They are not equipped to handle it and it not only magnifies their errors, but also increases the likihood that they will make more.

This is not a rant against volunteerism. I have no problem with umpires who wish to volunteer their time and talent. I do have a problem with assigning top level and pressure games on any basis other than proven skill.



[Edited by GarthB on Aug 20th, 2003 at 11:23 AM]

[Rich]

There are umpires that have exhibited both.

I worked a LL State Championship this year, but at the Junior level (13-14, 90' diamond). 4 of the umpires on the field work college games (along with a lot of LL), the other 2 were on the foul lines.

It can be done.

Rich

[GarthB]

I didn't mean to immply that there are not LL umpires capable of exemplary performances. There certainly are, and some of them are at LLWS.

Unfortunately, there are too many of the others present as well.

LL certainly has a pool of qualified, competent umpires waiting for the opportunity to work the LLWS. They just need a better selection process for this cream to rise to the top.

And, by the way, I do not work LL. There is no LL in my home area. I have no axe to grind and no ambitions being denied.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by GarthB
I didn't mean to immply that there are not LL umpires capable of exemplary performances. There certainly are, and some of them are at LLWS.

Unfortunately, there are too many of the others present as well.

LL certainly has a pool of qualified, competent umpires waiting for the opportunity to work the LLWS. They just need a better selection process for this cream to rise to the top.

And, by the way, I do not work LL. There is no LL in my home area. I have no axe to grind and no ambitions being denied.

Garth;

Yes you do have an axe to grind!!!!!!!! You are deliberately attempting to start trouble with the unmentionable who worships Little League.

I remember a couple of years ago when Carl made a similar observation regarding Little League (actually it was even more indirect and neutral than the innocent posts you just made) and the unmentionable flew off in a rage. (Maybe his meds were out of balance that day, who knows.)

Anyway, if the unmentionable is reading this, I would like to plant the thought in his mind that you were delberately taking a shot at him and the gods that he worships!

Peter

[GarthB]

Ahhhhh, Peter. As they say, with friends like you.......


In all seriousness, I really do believe there are better LL umpires around than what they've shown us on ESPN.
But then, again, I've head the same thing said about the real World Series.

[CDcoach]

Originally posted by brian43
not sure who was playing but my brother told me there was a runner on 1st, the ball went to the outfield on a hard ground ball, so the 2B umpire was going inside the diamond and with his back turned (while running) missed the force at second. my brother said the replays showed the kid was out by 5-6 feet but the umpire said he was safe. anyone see that, and how the hell does that happen?

I saw it and it was a HORRIBLE call. I thinkt he problem there was the umpire doing it was flat out of shape. He was a really big guy and seemed to have a hard time getting in position in time to make the correct call. His back was turned and the kid was out by a good 5 feet. It did end up costing the team a run. And what made it worse was replays showed that U1 was all over the call also and easily could of helped the U2.

I have to agree with Garth...these umpires I've seen have been pretty bad. Forgot which game it was but it was a regional and the strike zone with the PU was horrid! He rang up three kids on pitches 1 foot outside.

I also have to agree that they are not ready to be there and shouldn't be put in that spot. Replays are a killer...that really can't be good for thier confidence....

[David B]

I've wathched a lot of this years WS simply because it's been on so much even late at night with reruns, and I agree with Garth.

But the problem I've seen is that to put a lot of these umpires in the spotlight is really tough.

I know in my experience, the first time I called a big tourney game how nervous I was.

Then I remember the first time I was on TV, and my first college game. All of those were tough simply because I had never done it before.

However, after years of being in the spotlight, being in WS and other state and local championship games, now its business as usual.

It doesn't matter if there are 50 people or 5000 people I simply do my job. Having the experience to rely on makes you a better umpire.

After watching so many mechanical and basic errors (missing an easy call at 1st) I think a lot of these umpires are simply inexperienced. That's why they don't know how to explain a simple rule, or to simply ask for help on a questionable play.

Either they are intimidated or they simply just don't know what to do.

Being in the spotlight will do that every time.

thanks
David

[David B]

I've watched a lot of this years WS simply because it's been on so much even late at night with reruns, and I agree with Garth.

But the problem I've seen is that to put a lot of these umpires in the spotlight is really tough.

I know in my experience, the first time I called a big tourney game how nervous I was.

Then I remember the first time I was on TV, and my first college game. All of those were tough simply because I had never done it before.

However, after years of being in the spotlight, being in WS and other state and local championship games, now its business as usual.

It doesn't matter if there are 50 people or 5000 people I simply do my job. Having the experience to rely on makes you a better umpire.

After watching so many mechanical and basic errors (missing an easy call at 1st) I think a lot of these umpires are simply inexperienced. That's why they don't know how to explain a simple rule, or to simply ask for help on a questionable play.

Either they are intimidated or they simply just don't know what to do.

Being in the spotlight will do that every time.

thanks
David

[tornado]

Could it be that very few of these umps have experience in a 6 man crew?

I'm not defending the blown calls, but it's got to be rough seeing your own mistakes over and over again on ESPN.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into "when should you ask for help- when should you offer help to a partner"!!

On the blown call at second, that guy had to be the only one in the park who missed the call. Someone should have called for a conference to get an OBVIOUS call right.

[cowbyfan1]

My point on the catcher's interference. The only one in the park that thought it wasn't had to be the PU. F2 did reach out and like I said it APPEARS his eyes were closed. He should have gone for help or one of his P's should have pulled him aside and told him the obvious.

I will not get into the whole volunteer vs paid thing but maybe the mike on the field is a bit over the top on this. That is what really made the situation worst. The blue totally came off to me as a bit arrogant. He was an older guy so he has to be from that "hell freezes over before I get help old school" as opposed to getting it right.

[VaUmp]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
Happened to turn on the LLWS and in the game with Canada there was an obvious catcher interfernce. Home plate ump missed it. Coach (audio was on tv) said he saw it and asked the blue to get help twice. Blue refused saying it was his judgement call (that's true) and that he has nothing. Replay not only showed the catcher interference but it also looks like the home plate blue blinked at that time of the interference. Blue should have sacked up and gotten the help instead of having an obvious chip on the shoulder. The batter ended up making an out. Not good.

I don't know if it was the same play or not but I switched on while a kid was at bat with a (I believe) full count and no one on base. Between pitches they were showing a replay of a catcher's interference. I'm assuming that it was the same batter since there were no runners on and no outs to account for him being gone as a result of subsequent play.
EMBARRASING CALL!!