Balk calls from "B" position
 

High School ball. When I am at B position (with right handed pitcher) I am primarily looking for balks related to the feet and shoulders. My question is, since I do net possess X-ray vision to see the hands, should I totally defer to HP for "no-pause" balks or am I free to call one if it is really egregious?

See a balk - call a balk.

This goes with the "you can't call a check swing from the middle" BS!

I do not understand how you could not see a balk on the "pause" with most pitchers in the B position. If you see it, call it.

Peace

About the only thing you can't clearly, see is separation of the hands before stepping off. Otherwise, you can certainly see the body come to a "complete and discernible stop".

Stop that. Just look for legal movements. Period.

See a balk, call a balk.

I also agree w/ this.

Not in my game. All I want you to do is see whether F1 disengages the rubber before feinting to first, and MAYBE a slight flinch of the pivot leg.

Scratching CT1 as my potential partner on Arbiter...

Right. You wouldn't like working with me or all of my regular HS/college partners, then.

What?

What is the benefit of the plate umpire calling all balks? Which is what is implied if you wish to have the base umpire focus on just these two things. I haven't heard this teaching before, source, please?

That attitude is the reason I was probably more frustrated in baseball with partners than any other sport. Too many of these "macho" rules people apply. The BU has nothing else really going on but watching the pitcher. And why in the pros you see someone other than the BU call a balk.

Peace

Recipe for Disaster
 

14 yr old Babe Ruth state tournament quarterfinal in WI. PU--senior guy--tells me something like this and I'm young enough to listen. Full count on batter. Pitcher rolls through motion, not even a hint of a stop. Even his grandma knew it was a balk. I lock up because the PU told me in pre-game these are his call. He's silent (well, except for "strike three!"). HC is coaching 1st and goes nuts (with good reason). We do nothing to improve the situation--we don't conference to discuss, he ignores everyone, and I for some reason decide I can't call it now 'cause it will look like the coach convinced me to call it. I can't think of anything to say to the coach except "No call, coach. Let's play ball." The offended team made it to the final and I have the plate. Coach makes a subtle balk comment at our pre-game. All I can do is wince.

20+ years later this call is one of the top three "I wish I could have that call back" to haunt me from my long officiating career.

If you see it, call it. Even if the PU tells you it's his call (of course, don't accept that instruction). Let him explain to the assignor what you did wrong.

yep

Thanks
David

For all you know, we may have already worked together. I've done some games in Texas.

You're right about that. I prefer to umpire in short sleeves.

Huh? I guess you meant to type "PU", rather than "BU". Typical.

If you told me not to call balks from the B position, I'd have remembered you. Seeing as how the responses to you were unanimous, I'm hoping you change your opinion on the matter.

It was some old-school thiniking that had "BU watches the feet, PU watches the hands" (or maybe it was the other way arond -- I forget).

Most organizations have gone away from that. And, it's true that some are more easily seen from one position or another, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't get it if you see it.

Hey, good for you. I like breaking out the plate coat. Do you tell the base umpire how to call half swings, too?

So you got me on that one, but still does not change the fact your position and very antiquated on many levels. But if that is how you roll, more power to you. I just would not do what you suggest if I was working with you and would wounder why you cannot do your job and stick to some silly way to umpire.

Peace

That's still being taught...in fast-pitch softball anyway. :p

Most certainly.

If I say "Rich, did he go?", I want his true opinion. If, OTOH, I say "Rich, he didn't go, did he?", then I want him to stick with my call.

Have you ever considered using the Preview Post button?

With this response, you *must* be trolling. Or you just stepped in from the mid-1980s.

Have you ever considered not umpiring? ;)

Peace

Oh I see, you're just being funny.

Sorry for opening this can of worms.

The reason I brought it up is when I was at a state clinic last week and , while discussing working the "B" position, one of the instructors made a comment something like "you don't need to be calling balks from this position anyway". I said nothing but didn't think that was the consensus among people I had worked with.

I do wish you gentlemen would take on a more civil tone when discussing a legitimate question.

We all know that there are umpires or experienced umpires that advocate what you were told. It is sad because it makes no sense logically when the BU really has nothing else they are watching. And it is like the "Don't call a check swing from the A on a left hand batter" or do not do the same from the A or middle. The problem is that mentality is often not supported by anyone that produce mechanics books or develop these overall philosophies. There is a reason there are two of you out there. If we are going to only rely on one umpire, why have two at the very least out there?

And the civility IMO is more about the way umpires approach this sport. But I have been stating that for years on this site.

Peace

What about your regular LL partners?

Same people, actually.

OK, ya got me. Actually, I thought this wording:

"(A)m I free to call one if it is really egregious?"

from the OP was trollish, and didn't realize until his later clarification that he was serious.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Heh, good one. I love getting sucked in from time to time.

Maybe I should reword that.