2013 World Series Thread

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I hear you Pete. In our day, you put your butt on the line with each call and you better not ask the other guy to do your job. That's all changed now and it is because schools and clinics have stopped putting the onus of the call on the umpire and instead, put it on the "team". Back then, the onus was on youto get the call right or die with the call. The youngster of today don't understand this and argue with it because they were never taught this way (unless they were taught be me). They never experience being all alone out there with a bad call and no one to "help". That is what made us the officials we were because we didn't want to be hanging out to dry. Times change an sometimes not for the better.

My advice is simple; get the call right and you won't need "board meetings" and IR. You'll still have disagreements but the calls will be solid.

I see a lot of umpires who don't work hard to get in the right position to make calls. The attitude for some of them is, "I have a plate umpire to help with the swipe tag or pulled foot -- I don't *need* to bust my a$$ and get across and get the best possible look." I simply call those guys "terrible umpires."

Times have changed -- I see the value in having the occasional conversation when things go sideways and there's indecision or additional information. But it shouldn't be the normal thing -- this particular situation is newsworthy because it's so damned rare.

[JRutledge]

I am glad they got the call right in the end, but that was one of the worst calls I have ever seen on an initical play. It was not close and I am glad the crew got together to get it right. It would not be hard to see how bad that call was and give help even when you have other things to watch.

This is why they need to do something about the MLB Umpiring program IMO to get better guys either working the playoffs or fire guys for these kinds of mistakes. If this was in NFL and and an official called a completed pass with simailar possession I am sure they would be downgraded even if they had replay to overturn this call.

Peace

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting and revealing. I love what Joe Torre pointed out-- "JOE TORRE: One thing for you to know, he didn't miss a call all year. And he still hasn't missed a call all year. "

Is it just me, or should Joe Torre have stayed out of this press conference altogether? Who made him MLB's advocate for umpires?

[PeteBooth]

Manny do you know why Fox discontinued using Steve Palermo in the booth to explain certain situations?

I liked it when Palermo was in the booth. That way McCarver was kept in check and we did not have to listen to him or Buck butcher another rule interp.

Joe should have taken after his father Jack. Jack Buck at one time was a football referee. To this day IMO, Jack was one of the few (or perhaps only) play by play person who actually knew the rules.

Pete Booth

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Manny do you know why Fox discontinued using Steve Palermo in the booth to explain certain situations?

Pete, not really. Pure speculation, but I'm guessing that there just wasn't enough demand for his services.

How often in a typical game does a situation requiring an umpire's perspective take place? I cannot recall, for example, anything happening in Game 2 last night that would have been worthy of Palermo's input. Even the base awards following Breslow's errant throw was pretty cut and dried. Some of the more mundane things like whether or not an umpire was in the ideal position for a play, whether or not a warning should have been issued for a plunked batter, etc., just isn't sexy enough for an extensive discussion.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am glad they got the call right in the end, but that was one of the worst calls I have ever seen on an initical play. It was not close and I am glad the crew got together to get it right. It would not be hard to see how bad that call was and give help even when you have other things to watch.

This is why they need to do something about the MLB Umpiring program IMO to get better guys either working the playoffs or fire guys for these kinds of mistakes. If this was in NFL and and an official called a completed pass with simailar possession I am sure they would be downgraded even if they had replay to overturn this call.

Peace

Dana DeMuth is one of the best umpires in baseball and has been in the league for a very long time. You using one missed call to question his selection or his career even is surprising coming from you.

Even the best miss calls. Very few get to do it on a stage like that, though.

[Jay R]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;908632]

IR will NOT slow the game down. IMO, it will speed up the game.

Let's take last night

First Farrell comes out and argues (3-5 minutes)

Now the umpires huddle (another 3-5 mintes)

Call reversed

Out comes Matheny (another 3-5 minutes)

If IR was used - 2 minutes tops as it was a no brainer.

Remember the skippers will get challenges just like football and they will not waste them on close plays. This was obvious

Forget about being traditional All sports now have replay and it's about time baseball joins the rank and file.

Pete Booth

I went back and watch the sequence on my PVR. From the time of the play to the next pitch was 4 minutes and 30 seconds exactly. Farrell arguing, the umpires huddling and Metheny arguing took 4 and a half minutes. I don't think instant replay will be much faster. It will result in more correct calls however and that's good.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is it just me, or should Joe Torre have stayed out of this press conference altogether? Who made him MLB's advocate for umpires?

The job description for his position as MLB's Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations.

That position has responsibility for and oversees...
>Major League Operations
>On Field Operations
>On Field Discipline
>Umpiring

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Dana DeMuth is one of the best umpires in baseball and has been in the league for a very long time. You using one missed call to question his selection or his career even is surprising coming from you.

Even the best miss calls. Very few get to do it on a stage like that, though.

Maybe that is the case, but that was horrible. And when you assign the World Series on a rotation of some kind and not necessarily the best guys each season, you get these kinds of situations. Sorry, but he might be very good but that was awful and I still think MLB handles their umpires worse then any other professional league. My comments are not about a single call, they are about the fact that these kinds of plays keep happening and these guys never can be fired or replaced no matter how fat, number of bad call or just inconsistency they are apart of during the season. I did not even need to see the replay to know that was very bad. It is one thing to miss a call that is a bang, bang call, but this was not even close. I expect that from a Little League or youth Umpire, not a MLB guy. I would not expect that from a small college guy in a 2 man game. And if the call was completely in the glove and then some issue of the ball coming out on the transfer took place, then I could also understand. But how do you not see the fielder catch the ball in this case? How?

Again, just an opinion. And I am a Cardinals fan too. And I was glad when that call was made right by the crew, even with the fact it hurt my team in the long run.

Peace

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Manny A

{Edited to add} This will undoubtedly have repercussions down the ranks to us amateur umpires. Now when we have a clear miss on a play that's right in front of us (and we all have them on occasion), coaches will point to this play to argue their cases that we must go for help. An unfortunate precedent has been set, IMO.

Just this last post season, had a coach who thought I should get a second opinion on (1) a pulled foot at first and (2) a tag play at second.

When I said no on the second one, he said, "That's the second time you've refused to go for help! You need to get over that!"

Really?

Rita

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

The job description for his position as MLB's Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations.

That position has responsibility for and oversees...
>Major League Operations
>On Field Operations
>On Field Discipline
>Umpiring

And you feel that gives Joe the responsibility of putting in his two cents everytime the umpires get questioned by the press? Should he also be sitting next to the managers when they're interviewed about an on-field disciplinary situation, such as when a player gets ejected?

I just didn't think he needed to interject after virtually every answer that was given by each umpire. The umpires are big boys and don't need to have their hands held when in front of the cameras. In the past, umpire interviews entailed the umpire making the controversial call, and his crew chief supporting him. Joe adding fluff such as, "They're a team," and, "He hasn't missed a call all year," adds zero value to the discussion.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Just this last post season, had a coach who thought I should get a second opinion on (1) a pulled foot at first and (2) a tag play at second.

When I said no on the second one, he said, "That's the second time you've refused to go for help! You need to get over that!"

Really?

Rita

Unfortunately, that's going to become more and more common. Soon, we'll have to have an odd number of umpires on every game and we'll all vote on every play.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

And you feel that gives Joe the responsibility of putting in his two cents everytime the umpires get questioned by the press? Should he also be sitting next to the managers when they're interviewed about an on-field disciplinary situation, such as when a player gets ejected?

I just didn't think he needed to interject after virtually every answer that was given by each umpire. The umpires are big boys and don't need to have their hands held when in front of the cameras. In the past, umpire interviews entailed the umpire making the controversial call, and his crew chief supporting him. Joe adding fluff such as, "They're a team," and, "He hasn't missed a call all year," adds zero value to the discussion.

How do you know how I feel or what I think?

You asked a question regarding Torre's role with MLB umpires, I posted his MLB title and job description to provide an answer.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Just this last post season, had a coach who thought I should get a second opinion on (1) a pulled foot at first and (2) a tag play at second.

When I said no on the second one, he said, "That's the second time you've refused to go for help! You need to get over that!"

Really?

Rita

I think we care too much about what a coach thinks. I have no problem refusing "help" when I am doing nothing but watching a play and I know my partner cannot do much to help or does not have the look I have. They will get over it.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Great call by Jim Joyce.

Peace