2013 World Series Thread

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I never saw Farrell point to the scoreboard during his argument with Demuth as if to say, "Dana, they just showed the play up there, and it's clear you missed it!"

That would have punched his ticket to the locker room. I know they gave him a long leash but not when you say something like that.

[ozzy6900]

Yes, they huddled, we need IR, yadda, yadda, yadda.

How about this, Get the damn call right to start with! The play was right in front of DeMuth and he simply blew the call, horribly.

I normally do not jump on the "big boys" but in this case, I really can't see why DeMuth thought that there was voluntary release. I tried to play it from every angle and I just cannot see it.

[PeteBooth]

Ozzy I'm starting to lean more on the "dark side" and maybe umpiring schools need to change with respect to getting help.

We were "brainwashed' or whatever you want to call it when it came to asking our partner for help. Except for once in a while, it was blasphamy to request help. I'm sure "back in the day" you worked with guys that would not even look at you meaning DON'T ASK ME.

Let's take last nights game. Why should we have to wait for DeMuth to request help. Football officials gather almost all the time and discuss the situation yet in baseball you have to wait for the umpire who made the call to request help on his own, which IMO is ludicrous. Suppose DeMuth actually refused to get help and stuck with the call. There is nothing no-one could do at that point no matter how blatent of a miss.

My brother-in-law is a FED football official and they work in crews and I think it's great. Nothing is perfect but as mentioned above I am now leaning more towards the "dark side" then I used to.

Perhaps with IR umpiring schools will now teach / instruct etc. officials to work as team rather then as individuals and then of coarse the rules need to be re-written which would not be a bad thing.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Ozzy I'm starting to lean more on the "dark side" and maybe umpiring schools need to change with respect to getting help.

We were "brainwashed' or whatever you want to call it when it came to asking our partner for help. Except for once in a while, it was blasphamy to request help. I'm sure "back in the day" you worked with guys that would not even look at you meaning DON'T ASK ME.

Let's take last nights game. Why should we have to wait for DeMuth to request help. Football officials gather almost all the time and discuss the situation yet in baseball you have to wait for the umpire who made the call to request help on his own, which IMO is ludicrous. Suppose DeMuth actually refused to get help and stuck with the call. There is nothing no-one could do at that point no matter how blatent of a miss.

My brother-in-law is a FED football official and they work in crews and I think it's great. Nothing is perfect but as mentioned above I am now leaning more towards the "dark side" then I used to.

Perhaps with IR umpiring schools will now teach / instruct etc. officials to work as team rather then as individuals and then of coarse the rules need to be re-written which would not be a bad thing.

Pete Booth

I hear you Pete. In our day, you put your butt on the line with each call and you better not ask the other guy to do your job. That's all changed now and it is because schools and clinics have stopped putting the onus of the call on the umpire and instead, put it on the "team". Back then, the onus was on youto get the call right or die with the call. The youngster of today don't understand this and argue with it because they were never taught this way (unless they were taught be me). They never experience being all alone out there with a bad call and no one to "help". That is what made us the officials we were because we didn't want to be hanging out to dry. Times change an sometimes not for the better.

My advice is simple; get the call right and you won't need "board meetings" and IR. You'll still have disagreements but the calls will be solid.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I hear you Pete. In our day, you put your butt on the line with each call and you better not ask the other guy to do your job. That's all changed now and it is because schools and clinics have stopped putting the onus of the call on the umpire and instead, put it on the "team". Back then, the onus was on youto get the call right or die with the call. The youngster of today don't understand this and argue with it because they were never taught this way (unless they were taught be me). They never experience being all alone out there with a bad call and no one to "help". That is what made us the officials we were because we didn't want to be hanging out to dry. Times change an sometimes not for the better.

My advice is simple; get the call right and you won't need "board meetings" and IR. You'll still have disagreements but the calls will be solid.

I see a lot of umpires who don't work hard to get in the right position to make calls. The attitude for some of them is, "I have a plate umpire to help with the swipe tag or pulled foot -- I don't *need* to bust my a$$ and get across and get the best possible look." I simply call those guys "terrible umpires."

Times have changed -- I see the value in having the occasional conversation when things go sideways and there's indecision or additional information. But it shouldn't be the normal thing -- this particular situation is newsworthy because it's so damned rare.

[JRutledge]

I am glad they got the call right in the end, but that was one of the worst calls I have ever seen on an initical play. It was not close and I am glad the crew got together to get it right. It would not be hard to see how bad that call was and give help even when you have other things to watch.

This is why they need to do something about the MLB Umpiring program IMO to get better guys either working the playoffs or fire guys for these kinds of mistakes. If this was in NFL and and an official called a completed pass with simailar possession I am sure they would be downgraded even if they had replay to overturn this call.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am glad they got the call right in the end, but that was one of the worst calls I have ever seen on an initical play. It was not close and I am glad the crew got together to get it right. It would not be hard to see how bad that call was and give help even when you have other things to watch.

This is why they need to do something about the MLB Umpiring program IMO to get better guys either working the playoffs or fire guys for these kinds of mistakes. If this was in NFL and and an official called a completed pass with simailar possession I am sure they would be downgraded even if they had replay to overturn this call.

Peace

Dana DeMuth is one of the best umpires in baseball and has been in the league for a very long time. You using one missed call to question his selection or his career even is surprising coming from you.

Even the best miss calls. Very few get to do it on a stage like that, though.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Dana DeMuth is one of the best umpires in baseball and has been in the league for a very long time. You using one missed call to question his selection or his career even is surprising coming from you.

Even the best miss calls. Very few get to do it on a stage like that, though.

Maybe that is the case, but that was horrible. And when you assign the World Series on a rotation of some kind and not necessarily the best guys each season, you get these kinds of situations. Sorry, but he might be very good but that was awful and I still think MLB handles their umpires worse then any other professional league. My comments are not about a single call, they are about the fact that these kinds of plays keep happening and these guys never can be fired or replaced no matter how fat, number of bad call or just inconsistency they are apart of during the season. I did not even need to see the replay to know that was very bad. It is one thing to miss a call that is a bang, bang call, but this was not even close. I expect that from a Little League or youth Umpire, not a MLB guy. I would not expect that from a small college guy in a 2 man game. And if the call was completely in the glove and then some issue of the ball coming out on the transfer took place, then I could also understand. But how do you not see the fielder catch the ball in this case? How?

Again, just an opinion. And I am a Cardinals fan too. And I was glad when that call was made right by the crew, even with the fact it hurt my team in the long run.

Peace