Batter wants a free pass

[sunfudblu]

Pitch comes in and batter doesn't even move. I call ball (because it wasn't in the zone) and keep the batter at the plate, count was 1-0 now 2-0. The ump doing the next game told me that I should've called the pitch a strike (no matter where it was) and then warned both benches for unsportsmenlike conduct and the next players to repeat would be ejected.

The only book I have is FED and they say to keep the batter at bat and call it a ball or a strike. Is this a college, pro, pony or little league ruling??

[David B]

Originally posted by sunfudblu
Pitch comes in and batter doesn't even move. I call ball (because it wasn't in the zone) and keep the batter at the plate, count was 1-0 now 2-0. The ump doing the next game told me that I should've called the pitch a strike (no matter where it was) and then warned both benches for unsportsmenlike conduct and the next players to repeat would be ejected.

The only book I have is FED and they say to keep the batter at bat and call it a ball or a strike. Is this a college, pro, pony or little league ruling??

I'm assuming in your play that the pitch hit the batter since you said you kept the batter at the plate??

As far as the ruling, thank goodness your partner in the next game wasn't calling in your game.

Why would you call the pitch a strike (no matter where it was)?

The only time I've seen that in the books is in Dixie Youth if the batter steps out of the box as the pitcher pitches the ball, then its a called strike.

But for you to call it a strike, the ball must be in the strike zone. If the batter leans into the pitch and it would be a strike call it.

But if the pitch is an obvious ball and you think the batter did not try to avoid the pitch, simply tell him, "stay in the box", call it a ball and continue.

You made the right call.

And IMO, don't ever call a game with other ump. He sounds like an accident fixin to happen.

Thanks
David

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by sunfudblu
Pitch comes in and batter doesn't even move. I call ball (because it wasn't in the zone) and keep the batter at the plate, count was 1-0 now 2-0. The ump doing the next game told me that I should've called the pitch a strike (no matter where it was) and then warned both benches for unsportsmenlike conduct and the next players to repeat would be ejected.

The only book I have is FED and they say to keep the batter at bat and call it a ball or a strike. Is this a college, pro, pony or little league ruling??

The only time you would call a strike on a HPB is if the batter was swinging at the pitch when it hit him. Otherwise it's a free walk to 1st base, or a ball only and keep the batter at bat if you believe he made no effort to avoid being hit by the pitch.

The only time you should warn both MANAGERS (not both benches) is after you judged that the pitch was intentionally thrown at the batter and you had just ejected the pitcher. Pitchers should NEVER be ejected for unintentionally hitting a batter with a pitch.

Like David says, be glad that ump doing the next game wasn't your partner. He sounds like a real Smitty.

With a HPB you want to be pretty darn sure the batter COULD have avoided the pitch before depriving him of his free walk to 1st base.

Is this a college, pro, pony or little league ruling?? I sincerely doubt you'll find this guy's weird idea in any official rule book for the game of baseball - but of course I could be wrong!

Cheers

[GarthB]

"The only time you would call a strike on a HPB is if the batter was swinging at the pitch when it hit him."


Or if it struck him while in the strike zone.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

How serious do you get about requiring the batter's compliance with

"If he makes no effort to avoid being hit..." FED 8-1-1d, exception.

"Batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball..." OBR 6.08 (B)(2)?

I tend to feel there is an area within approximately a foot of the plate that belongs to the pitcher. In that area the batter definitely must make effort to not get hit. However, I also feel that there is an area well away from the plate that belongs to the batter and that the batter could stand in that area and reasonably expect to not get hit.

A batter that gets hit in the half of the batter's box that is away from the plate and that has made no physical movement gets first base in my games. The pitcher has invaded his area. Perhaps the batter's only effort was to overcome the urge to jump out of the box and by staying in the box has shown his confidence that the pitcher's delivery is going to break over the plate.

By the book, I feel wrong in this. But in the spirit of the game, I feel awarding first for an out of control pitch is something I necessarily need to do.

Who has thoughts on this?

[GarthB]

Depends on the level and the pitch.

In big boy ball, batters, at least those well coached, know that they have to stand in on the breaking ball or they'd be bailing on hittable pitches. I give much more leeway on breaking pitches.

If a change up is coming in, and to some degree, a fastball, I want to see some indication that the batter did not intentionally "take the hit", even if he did. Give me SOMETHING, a twitch, a turn, a move, some acknowledgment that the player knows he should attempt to avoid.

And please, let us remember that he is not required to avoid the pitch, he is required to attempt to avoid...

To some degree, the batter has a reasonable expectation that the pitch will not be in the batter's box. So again, I believe in tempering the rule to the occasion. At little boy ball, this is a prime consideration. Nothing more silly sounding than parents at a game between 9 year olds yelling..."He has to get out of the way!"

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by GarthB
Depends on the level and the pitch.

In big boy ball, batters, at least those well coached, know that they have to stand in on the breaking ball or they'd be bailing on hittable pitches. I give much more leeway on breaking pitches.

If a change up is coming in, and to some degree, a fastball, I want to see some indication that the batter did not intentionally "take the hit", even if he did. Give me SOMETHING, a twitch, a turn, a move, some acknowledgment that the player knows he should attempt to avoid.

I'm with Garth for most of this: it depends on the level and the pitch. I use the batter's box as my guide, and I tend to give progressively more protection the further back into the box the pitch travels.

I have to see something, anything, from the batter on a breaking ball that doesn't. Even if hanging in, the batter still has some small time to react on that very late breaking pitch that cuts through the box.

OTOH, if it's a fast ball or a change-up straight through the box then at the level I call the batter seldom has any time to react before being hit. I give them the base anyway.

If the batter is well inside the box when hit by a fast ball or change up, it's an automatic 1st base. If it's a curve, then I need to see at least a flinch or a twitch. Statues that get hit by curve balls are kept where they are. Hitters who put themselves in harms way also get to stay at home.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[wobster]

I was doing a little league game this summer, and one rather large kid (to put it nicely) would crowd the plate and stick his hand out straight in front of him and usually smack down the breaking balls. I warned the kid the first time about making an attempt to evade the pitched ball, in fact, I even called time and walked down the the base and told him, due to the level of play this is. The second time same batter comes up, he doesn't stick his hand out, he doesn't even move, and he gets drilled with a fastball (I don't know if drilled is the word, it was coming in at about 40 MPH tops) I tell him no base, because he didn't move. The coaches and stands go nuts (close game). Fun stuff.

[bluezebra]

Once more someone making a statement or asking a question, giving incomplete info. This is not a guessing game.

Bob

[johnSandlin]

In major league baseball, if it is one time thing with a batter getting hit, then no big deal call the pitch accordingly. However, in the next half inning the pitcher comes and purposely hits somebody, now you come out and warn both teams.
But, if any pitcher hits three batters in one inning, that pitcher is automatically tossed, no questions asked per the Major League rules.

In college, it is the same as FED rulebook.

[CDcoach]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
In major league baseball, if it is one time thing with a batter getting hit, then no big deal call the pitch accordingly. However, in the next half inning the pitcher comes and purposely hits somebody, now you come out and warn both teams.
But, if any pitcher hits three batters in one inning, that pitcher is automatically tossed, no questions asked per the Major League rules.

In college, it is the same as FED rulebook.

As far as I know that is all umpire judgement...now I believe chances are that if a pitcher hits three guys the umpire will toss him in MLB. Please quote that rule, because I've never heard that and always thought it was completely umpire judgement.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
In major league baseball, if it is one time thing with a batter getting hit, then no big deal call the pitch accordingly. However, in the next half inning the pitcher comes and purposely hits somebody, now you come out and warn both teams.
But, if any pitcher hits three batters in one inning, that pitcher is automatically tossed, no questions asked per the Major League rules.

In college, it is the same as FED rulebook.

Mr Sandlin it appears that you may have your facts wrong.

There is NO RULE, under the Official Baseball Rules governing Major League Baseball, to require that a pitcher be ejected for unintentionally hitting any number of batters in any given time frame. OTOH, intentionally hitting even 1 batter results in an automatic ejection WITHOUT WARNING under OBR 8.02(d). That ejection would be followed by a warning to both MANAGERS, not "both teams" per se.

Even if you actually meant LL Majors rather than "Major League" you are probably still quite mistaken, since LL Inc rules essentially follow OBR.

FWIW, the NCAA rule regarding intentionally pitching at the batter is the same as OBR, not FED. FED is slightly different in that it mandates warning or ejection for "intentionally throwing close to a batter".[FED Rule 6-2-3 and Penalty]

Hope this helps

Cheers

[brian43]

But, if any pitcher hits three batters in one inning, that pitcher is automatically tossed, no questions asked per the Major League rules.

maybe in your area, but not in any official rule book that i have ever used. ive worked in places where the "local" rule is like the one you described (sometimes the local Little League might have that rule), but its not an official rule by any of the books im familiar with.

[GarthB]

But, if any pitcher hits three batters in one inning, that pitcher is automatically tossed, no questions asked per the Major League rules.

Man, you'd get plenty of questions if you tried to enforce that around here. Could you cite the rule you reference here, please? Is that under rule 8.00The Pitcher, or maybe rule 12.00 Stuff I heard Somebody Say Once?

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Warren Willson


OTOH, intentionally hitting even 1 batter results in an automatic ejection WITHOUT WARNING under OBR 8.02(d).

But does the batter have to actually be hit?

Suppose you're in a game where the offense has just had a walk and two ripshot singles---allowing only single base advances by the runners. With bases loaded the next batter comes in and hits a monster grand slam. The next batter, who homered in his last at bat, comes to the plate and has a fastball delivered 2 inches behind his shoulders.

Is this cause to eject the picher without warning???

IMO, if you judge that the pitcher was intentionally throwing at the batter, then you should eject him. When the situation causes your judgment to believe the intent of the pitcher was to hit the batter, actually hitting the batter is not necessary, and a warning is not mandated. The penalty is for intentionally throwing at the batter---whether he hits him or not.


Freix