CWS game 2 starting pitcher windup?
 

Does not appear to be legal by NCAA rules. But, I think FED and NCAA should go with the MLBUM description of the windup so I have no problem with it. I just wish both would change their verbiage.

Edited to add: He double sets also but who cares. He sets at the bottom.

Picture or video? Why was it illegal?

Picture a RH Cliff Lee.

So you're asking us to envision something and then determine if it's legal or not?

I don't think any of us can help with your question without a picture or (preferably) video.

So he made all the way to the CWS final game using an illegal windup and no one called it?

What, nobody watched the CWS. I have a picture off my DVR. How do I get it in a post. But let me ask is Cliff Lee's windup a legal NCAA windup?

This is a prospect video but did the same thing in the game:

NICK VANDER TUIG PROSPECT VIDEO, RHP, UCLA - YouTube

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6ipjkw9kwgA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I watched about half of the video: loved the Jimi Hendrix playing in the background, :D.

Under NFHS Rules: Illegal Pitch/Balk every time.

MTD, Sr.

What would you say it was under NCAA:

"a. The Windup. The pitcher shall stand facing (shoulders squared to) the batter,
with the pivot foot on or in front of and touching the pitcher’s plate. The
pitcher’s entire free foot shall not be in front of the pivot foot."

UmpJim:

I do not doubt for a minute that under NCAA Rules that it is an Illegal Pitch/Balk, but Junior and I only umpire under NFHS rules except for the Roy Hobbs League (MLB/AL Rules) games that we do in the summer so when it comes to the college boys we leave that to the big dogs at the college level. I do download a copy of the NCAA Baseball Rules every year just to have a copy on file if I want to research something but that is far as it goes.

Still love the Jimi Hendrix in the background of the video though, :D.

MTD, Sr.

Just because there are no runners doesn't mean the pitcher has to or is using windup.

Looks to me like they consider him in set, not windup, and all his shrug/step stuff is part of his natural motion that commits him to pitch. If so, it is legal.

As no one has called it on him all year, I'd go with the "deemed legal" thought.

That's a windup. He has a different set. Since your not complaining coach I don't have a problem with it. If you were complaining (which apparently hasn't happened in this players career) I'd tell you that you and I can tell the difference between his windup and set. Before FED wrapped itself around the axle about windup foot position we never enforced their rule as no one complained and you could always tell if a pitcher was in the windup or set by other clues. The NCAA verbiage is problematic though.

Unless you live in an area where nobody calls it. :D

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

Interesting rationalization. Works for me. Can I use it in FED?

It's not a set position.

It's a windup with the feet in the wrong position, a hybrid stance as defined by the NFHS.

Rich:

It is called in Ohio H.S. baseball games. I called it myself twice on a particular varsity pitcher in the same at bat.

MTD, Sr.

Junior and I discussed this at the beginning of the H.S. here in Ohio and Michigan. We both agree that the NFHS got it correct for the wrong reason.

The NFHS POE concerned itself with the position of the Pivot Foot instead of concerning itself with the position of the Non-Pivot Foot. How the Pivot Foot is in contact with the Pitcher's Plate (PP) should not determine whether the F1 has engaged the PP in the Wind-up of the Stretch/Set position, but the position of the Non-Pivot Foot should be the determining factor as to whether the F1 has engaged the PP in the Wind-up of the Stretch/Set position.

Just our humble opinion. As MTD, Jr., would say: Peace! Out!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Still love the Jimi Hendrix in the playing in the background of the video, :D.

Can you direct me to that in the NCAA rulebook?

You could use that rationalization in FED, but this stance would be illegal in FED, as it's not a set by their rules.

Can't tell from the video (the 30 seconds or so that I watched) whether the entire free foot is entirely in front of the pivot foot.

Note that college essentially gives the pitcher about 12" farther forward in which to place the free foot, compared with NFHS.

And, I would agree, it's often ignored, especially with no runners. Now if there are runners, (specifically R3) and the runners might be affectged as not being able to tell whether the pitcher is in the wind-up or set, that might be a different issue.

CWS side view showed daylight between the two feet. This pitcher as with Cliff Lee you can tell which stance he is in, the windup or set, or as MDlonghorn says, the set or the other set.

What FED set rule does this violate?

Free foot must be on or behind a line through the front of the rubber (to be in the wind up).

But I'm calling it a set as per MDlonghorn and Rich Ives.

Now you're confusing FED and NCAA rules.

FED windup requires free foot to be on Pitchers Plate front line extension. OP pitcher does not comply with this.

NCAA windup requires entire free foot to not be in front of pivot foot. OP pitcher does not comply with this. We won't worry about squared shoulders.

Rationalization is that this pitcher is in the set. What FED set rule is different than NCAA?

If the pitcher isn't in the wind-up, he's in the set. So if the "windup" rule is different then the "set" rule is also different. Maybe I'm just mis-understanding.

By rule, the pitcher shown in the video has his free foot in the set position in FED. However, his pivot foot is in the wind-up position. Thus, it's the "hybrid" in FED that was the POE this year -- and, apparently, enforced differently in different locales. Search on previous threads -- I'm pretty sure there were some pictures of the various feet positions and a discussion of them.

Why is his pivot foot in the "windup position"? It's almost parallel and in full contact with the plate. Thus according to MDlonghorn and Rich Ives he is in the set and does not violate NCAA windup restrictions. Without runners on he does what looks like a windup step back but both allow as part of his motion to pitch out of the set.

While my locale ignored the FED rule pre POE it was enforced strictly post POE. Even to the extent that we got an interp that a heel tangent to the plate or edge extension was not on or in contact with the plate. They had to edge the heel a little bit onto the white.