Handling the Catcher
 

Had a 19U game today. Teams were both fairly good and the games were competitive. F2 was a good player but had a bit of a mouth on him. Majority of his comments were being directed at his own team, but as the game continued and things started getting close comments started to be geared towards me.

Throughout the game, on a couple of close pitches, he would turn and ask where the pitch missed. I commented and he said alright and the game continued. After one of these interactions, he said back to me that it was a good pitch and I had to call it a strike. My response was that the pitch was inside, being between the plate and white line of the batters box, and was not a strike. He shoots back at me "you mean you are not giving two balls off the plate" to which I reply no. Coach comes out to talk to F1 and F2 follows. I can hear him tell the coach that I am not giving them anything and that he is going to have to throw the ball right down the middle of the plate. I ignore, and the game continues. A few batters later, pitch comes in high to which I call ball on. F2 turns again and asks where the pitch missed, to which I state high, and he then requests time to talk to his pitcher. As he is walking out to the pitcher, he says to him "come on Jimmy, you are going to have to throw it right down the middle of the plate, he is giving us nothing." After F2 returns and is behind home plate, I quietly take my mask off and clean home plate. In the process, I look at F2 and tell him "If I hear one more smart ass comment about the strike zone, you will be spending the rest of the game in the dugout, do you understand me?" F2 looks at me and says yes sir and the game continues without incident.

I usually do not like to give out ultimatums, but in this incident I figured it would get my point across to F2. I also usually never curse on the field, but again with the player being 19 I felt that this would make a statement. After I made these comments, F2 never said another negative word towards me and the game continued without incident.

So how does everyone think I handled this situation, and what are some of your ways of handling a catcher that begins to question balls and strikes?

Thanks

I would certainly warn the catcher but you could have left out the part about spending the rest of the game in the dugout. First of all, if you eject him, he can't stay in the dugout. All you need to say is that you have heard enough.

You handled it poorly. Do not give ultimatums, period. I'm not sure what point you wanted to get across anyway - let him tell his pitcher to just throw meatballs down the middle if it makes him happy.

1. The first time a catcher turns around to ask you where a pitch was, tell him where it was, then when he turns back around, kindly ask him to simply work with you by talking while facing forward. You want to work together, not against each other. He can just ask "where'd you have that" while facing forward like everyone else does.

2. If he isn't receptive to the info you're giving him and he wants to interpret it as requiring the ball to be down the middle, that's fine. Not every catcher knows how to work with an umpire, and if they don't want to, you can't make them.

I agree that you handled it poorly. Never allow F2 to turn around to talk to you when he is in his crouch. This leads people to think that he is questioning your call. Instruct him to face forward when he speaks ot you in the crouch.

Secondly, nip this wanna-be umpire in the bud early. Explain to him that his job is to call the game, catch the pitch and lead the team. You will handle the umpiring. Do not give ultimatums and do not allow him to violate this pact a 2nd time.

19 years old? This sounds like a middle school F2!

Did you really say all of this?

(1) That's a strike. Call it a strike all day and see how much better your game will be. Trust me on that one.

(2) If you want to say something on a pitch that *isn't* a strike, say "That's inside." Anything more is too much talking.

Well,
 

Tank thanks for giving us a great example to teach,

First, the pitch should be a strike. We teach that over-and-over to our umpire classes.

Second, I have never talked that much to a catcher ever in a game (Unless he has a great looking divorced mom) . . .

and finally either eject or keep your mouth shut.'

That's advice . . . not a criticism.

T

You did let it go too long, after he commented about the inside pitch I would have put a stop to the conversation.

I don't get nasty and will answer a reasonable inquiry but, I do not play that "where was that pitch Blue" game. Especially with catchers that can see the pitch better than you. Good pitchers locate your strike zone right off the bat and expect you to be consistent with it. I have had many say "Blue, I always know where my out pitch is with you."

I have had catchers ask, "Where is your strike zone Blue?" to which I replied, "Wherever I say it is"

As far as cursing on the field, the higher level you work, the more inventive the language becomes. The secret is to also maintain your composure and professionalism and much as humanly possible.

I agree with some of the other posters on this one, that inside pitch is a strike all day long. If you don't call that you WILL look like you are squeezing the zone. Nothing will ruin a game quicker than a postage stamp size zone. I give one ball width on the inside and outside. I also don't feel the need to justify my zone to anyone.

Exactly. I call an aggressive zone at every level -- from LL up through NCAA games -- and I hear *virtually nothing* on balls and strikes.

I've worked with guys that will "ball" a pitch they think is a half-inch inside and call nothing above the belt. Their games last 3+ hours and they get grief on balls and strikes almost constantly.

The NCAA message at the regional clinics was: "Call strikes." They also showed data from last year's championships that the highest rated plate guys also received comments next to their ratings saying, "Big zone, but very consistent."

We are not umpiring MLB and calling pitches for ML pitchers and catchers.

Tank, when he told his pitcher "he was going to have to throw it down the middle. He's not giving us nothing" he was asking to be EJ'd. When I was working college ball I had a catcher late in the game start whining about pitches. I told him that we'd had a good game , up until now, and I couldn't give him those pitches. He persisted and I asked him "Jimmy who's the back up catcher"? He said "I understand" and everything went smooth after that. Try to shut it it down as soon as you can.

When a catcher, who is on a 19u team, says things like that, that means that he was frustrated with the zone. Unless this catcher is a rookie, you would suspect that he has caught quite a few games and knows how to successfully interact with umpires.

If a game gets to that point, where F2's are openly complaining about the zone, then the umpire needs to re-examine what he is doing for that game. Don't change it mid game, but learn from it.

Like I have said earlier, your interpretation of the strike zone has a direct bearing on the quality of the game.

I should clarify that up until him stating the pitch was good and I needed to give it to them, I do not feel as if he was questioning the zone, but asking to find out where the pitch missed. His body language and tone were not aggressive. When he openly criticised the zone to the pitcher where I could hear him (which I felt was geared mainly towards me not his pitcher) I thought ejection for a second but was uncertain if that would make me look like I had a quick hook so I opted for the warning. Sounds as if after his statement I should have shut it down then instead of giving him an answer.

This was within the second game of a double header they were playing. I have since found out that he pulled the same attitude on my partner, but he shut it down after him asking in a more aggressive tone. As he told me, he leaned down and told the catcher if he kept questioning ballls and strikes he would find out real fast how tight the zone could be.

I am not much into giving inside off the plate. Outside I will give a little as the ball is hittable.

I will respond to the catcher who asks where a pitch was with inside, outside, high, low as the case may be.

Ticking off a catcher is not worth it in the long run. It creates really long games and ruins the relationship you need to develop with them.

Call a decently large, aggressive zone and you'll stay out of trouble.

To answer your question about how to handle a catcher complaining about balls and strikes, I like to say, hey, John, great day for a ball game isn't it? He'll probably say yes, my response, good, let's play some ball then" Quick, easy and I've told him politely to knock it off.

That inside corner is a pitcher's pitch. Batters are hanging over the plate because they don't expect pitchers to throw there.

I give exactly the same on the inside as I do on the outside, BTW.

If you are giving one ball on the outside, you should give one ball on the inside, no? Nobody is saying calling a strike when the ball doesn't touch the black, but if a pitcher can hit that inside pitch, I'm going to give it to him. Batters will adjust.

I usually work one in and two out. I may see some aggravation from a batter when I ring him/her up, but the only thing I hear from the coach is: "Come on, you gotta hit those" or something similiar.

I went to a local clinic which had a D1 - D2 umpire in chief instructing. He said that their umpires are instructed to go 4-6 inches outside, but take that away from the inside. I'll go a ball or slightly more outside, but a inside pitch has to hit the corner. I'd have probably told the catcher after the first time he turned around that he'd have all the time he wants to check out the hot chicks in the stands from the dugout if he did it again.

ô!ô
 

And you would be wrong.

Your nose in right in front on the pitch. Have the balls to call the pitch as identified in the OP.

T

It has nothing to do with having the balls to call it. It has to do with having a zone you're comfortable with and consistent in calling. I get very little complaining about balls and strikes and don't see the need to give the pitcher everything and the batter nothing. The pitch on the fists is not a hittable pitch in my opinion. It's not reasonable to expect a hitter to go outside the zone and hit a pitch there and also have to go inside to hit pitches out of the zone there as well. I'm not going to say you're wrong if you call both edges outside of the plate, but you have to do what you are comfortable with. If you don't, you'll lose consistency in my opinion.

ôiô
 

Welcome to 2:45 minute games.

Call the strike zone as defined by quality umpires.

YOU have decided a pitch in not hittable . . . how quaint. Of course you are in the capital of great baseball.

T

I appreciate the smart-ass response. I'll take it for what it's worth ... nothing.

So, if you are lined up with your nose in the slot, ideally in the area between the batters box line and the plate, and a pitch comes right at your nose, you would call that a ball?:confused:

We've got 6 inches we're working with between the inside corner of the plate and the inside lines of the batters box (assuming they're there). I'm not so tight that I won't give an inch or slightly more there. I won't give any more than that, especially if I'm being somewhat generous on the outside edge. Most coaches want their pitchers hitting that low outside corner, and that typically is the "pitchers pitch" that they want. Pitches that miss on the inside are (more often than not) pitches that are not hitting the desired spot and I don't think should be rewarded as strikes if they're off the plate. To do so gives the pitcher too generous of a zone (in my opinion).

Let's face it, the strike zone as we call it at most levels of ball is much more liberal than the book tells us it should be. Each umpire needs to do what they're comfortable with at the level of play they're dealing with, and what works for them. I get few complaints about my zone, and I've been calling it the same way for the 20+ years that I've umpired. I'm in no way saying I'm right and your wrong, but also don't believe that you're right and I'm wrong either.

Like I said earlier, at the last college clinic I attended, we were instructed to be generous on the outside edge, but take that much away from the inside edge. I don't think we can do that at the high school or lower levels of play, but also don't think you need to be overly generous inside. Sorry for the long winded answer, but hope you see where I'm coming from (even if we disagree)

If a pitcher is nailing his catcher's left knee for three strikes in a row to a lefty, why is that suddenly a ball when the righty steps in?

It seems like you're trying to call the game that you think the coaches are playing. Half of them don't even know what game they're playing so I wouldn't try to guess what they want.

For almost 20 yrs I have been going with one ball in/out on the corners at ALL levels worked and either I am the luckiest guy in the region or I am doing something right because it is rare that I get a 21/4 hr+ game (unless its extra innings). The key is consistency and good position to see pitches properly! Pitchers and batters will adjust by the end of their first inning of play.

I don't follow the prescribed 2 on the outside, 1 on the inside "clinic" nonsense or should I say that I have never been taught that at any clinic I ever attended. IMO if you are consistent calling one ball in/out and have solid mechanics that allow clear vision of the entire zone you will find that your games will run much smoother and, as a by-product, more timely.

If F2 needs to be handled, the best way to do that is to have a consistent zone communicated crisply and with good timing....above all else - be professional at all times as respect is easy to give but very hard to earn.

If you call the outside pitch, but not the inside pitch, you'll get the batters to crowd the plate. We get 100s of posts a year about "how do I see when the batter crowds the plate" so it must be a problem. And then, when a pitch is inside by a bit, you either get a hit batter, or a strike that the batter is trying to avoid -- and that looks bad.

So, keep the width the same but shift everything to the left (for a RH batter) a bit. If you give two balls off on the outside, and nothing on the inside, then try giving one each way.

The bottom line is that each umpire needs to call a zone that they're comfortable with and be consistent with. The players will adjust. Hopefully we're all calling the strikes that actually do go over the plate !!! ;););)

It's discussions like this that make me like the way The American Legion Umpires Manual defines the width of the strike zone. They show one ball laying on the ground on the outside of the plate and one ball laying on the ground on the inside of the plate. That expands the width of the plate by 6". Hard to miss a strike on the inside of the plate between the dish and the line of the batters box.......

Tim.

You may feel that way. But if he turned around to talk to you (and he's not 10 years old), he is most definitely questioning your zone.

Good catcher-umpire communication will include some questions from the catcher. If you can't answer that question in 3-4 words, you're talking too much. 99% of the time, one word suffices. You also need to shorten your warning. "OK, that's enough" will be enough for most catchers. Don't put such a point on the threat. And honestly, your partner's "warning" was too long as well.

You know it's crucial to be consistent in your own calls... but it's also important to be consistent with everyone else's. That pitch just off the inside corner, not over chalk, is a strike in most of your other umpire's minds - pitchers are used to it... catchers are used to it ... and before you start saying it's not fair to batters to call that pitch a strike ... batters are used to it too. Call it. Your game will go easier.

If a pitcher can put that pitch a ball's width off the inside corner and the umpire calls it a strike, then the batter may have to back up a step and not crowd the plate. I'm not sure why this is my problem. I'm not sure why I need to worry about the hittability of a pitch -- some pitches are just that well placed as to be unhittable.

Unlike others, I never, ever say what I call a strike. Just that I call lots of them. If someone asks me what a pitch 2 balls off the plate is called, I'd say, "By rule, that's a ball" and change the subject.

How many times does a catcher really not know where you judge the pitch to have missed? Wouldn't it be obvious 99% of the time?

Well, I guess I'll answer with this ... if you're calling consistently and not squeezing like it sounds like OP was, you're not going to be asked very often. I find I'm asked more often on pitches that fooled the catcher for whatever reason. Catcher set up inside, and it's low and away - they might ask, wondering if it was low, or away (with "both" being an acceptable answer of course). That, or check swings or pitches where a runner is going - something where the catcher lost focus for a second.

If you have a postage stamp zone, you're going to get asked more often - and yes, you're probably right that the catcher knows the answer.

"Was that low, blue?" YEP (never disagree with a catcher):D

Except when the catcher is batting, where the answer to that question is, "Nope, I called it a strike."

In California, I worked a bunch of games for a particular team, so I got to know their catcher pretty well. Not that I think that is good, it's just the way it turned out. Well, he is at bat, a pitch comes in at the belt line, he takes, I strike it. He kind of looks sideways at me and I reply, "Steve, why did you take that one?" No answer, next pitch comes in, same spot, Steve cranks it over the fence. As he crosses home plate he has a big grin on his face...

Same catcher, up at bat, pitcher throws a really nice tight slider, Steve is fooled, and I ring him up (sort of dramatically)...he turns and say's, " Geeze Bob, you don't have to enjoy it THAT much"